Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 10:13:01 GMT -5
I've never been a church goer. I dropped out after baptism. So I relate more to a secular style. However, the Franciscans are deeply engrained in the tradition that is Siena College. Remove them, and the school loses a lot of identity. I doubt that will happen. not an entire clean sweep, as I mentioned in my post, just at the top for overall leadership, thus the Franciscan values can remain.................those other schools I mention have not lost anything, and more likely gained from a fresh outlook/perspective in todays world.......win/win, imho........ I'd agree with that. The qualified applicant pool would dramatically increase if you weren't limited to choosing friars.
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Jan 17, 2018 10:17:33 GMT -5
I'm all for canning Jimmy at the end of the year but if we are trying to make a case then here we go:
1) Brought school their first postseason championship in the CBI 2) Came within one point of winning the MAAC Championship last year 3) Has three promising freshman in Penn, Horn, and Oduro 4) Potential for a good recruiting class coming in 5) Has noticeably toned down his sideline antics this year 6) After Nico fiasco had the team ready for big efforts against Canisius and at Iona 7) Closing in on MAAC record for wins
I'm sure I could come up with a list of about 100 reasons he should go but when you are looking at eating $1.2 million to fire him then I could see how you can look at the list above and convince yourself to keep him around for another year or two.
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Post by MTS on Jan 17, 2018 10:25:18 GMT -5
I'm all for canning Jimmy at the end of the year but if we are trying to make a case then here we go: 1) Brought school their first postseason championship in the CBI 2) Came within one point of winning the MAAC Championship last year 3) Has three promising freshman in Penn, Horn, and Oduro 4) Potential for a good recruiting class coming in 5) Has noticeably toned down his sideline antics this year 6) After Nico fiasco had the team ready for big efforts against Canisius and at Iona 7) Closing in on MAAC record for wins I'm sure I could come up with a list of about 100 reasons he should go but when you are looking at eating $1.2 million to fire him then I could see how you can look at the list above and convince yourself to keep him around for another year or two. 1 and 3 are the only ones that I could buy and 1 is 5 years ago. Also on #3 they look like solid players but I don't see any stars yet. #2 - almost doesn't count and all those players are gone. I don't have a lot of confidence he's signing any big time players for next year. He hasn't gotten many T's but that doesn't mean the circus isn't continue which it is. 7 is completely meaningless - see compiler - bet Magarity would be up there if Marist was in the MAAC for his entire career. Beat Canisius in an ugly game and faded against Iona. I don't know the exact amount he's owed but it's not $1.2M - pretty confident in saying that.
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Papi
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Post by Papi on Jan 17, 2018 10:43:41 GMT -5
Those 3 freshman will be the next group of 1000 point scorers. Might turn out better with this group than the last group of 1000 point scorers. JP for three more years.
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Post by greengold4ever on Jan 17, 2018 10:56:13 GMT -5
Those 3 freshman will be the next group of 1000 point scorers. Might turn out better with this group than the last group of 1000 point scorers. JP for three more years. but again, doesn't mean wins will follow, see the last group, and until this group passes that prior group, not looking too promising..............AND if JP's hectic/frenetic all-access 24/7 recruiting of the caliber of players he is chasing now is any indication, this current group is in many ways even being recruited over, so perhaps less chance of getting to that points milestone...............just sayin'
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Post by siena7127 on Jan 17, 2018 12:40:47 GMT -5
If and it is a big if.....JP starts recruiting full time, can begin to lower the amount of turnover and win 18+ consistently then he can keep the job.
But nothing in the past 5 years shows me that he is capable of that.
Meaning I don’t think there is an argument to keep him around.
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Post by greenblood on Jan 17, 2018 17:50:16 GMT -5
If and it is a big if.....JP starts recruiting full time, can begin to lower the amount of turnover and win 18+ consistently then he can keep the job. But nothing in the past 5 years shows me that he is capable of that. Meaning I don’t think there is an argument to keep him around. Agree. 1- he has to land those (impact) recruits 2- he has to develop them and play to their strengths 3- he has to slow down the transfer rate or he will always have the 'we are forever young' excuse Personally, I am over the excuses.....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 18:14:16 GMT -5
It's getting so I need an excuse to consider the excuses...it's mind numbing....
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glen
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Post by glen on Jan 18, 2018 7:53:18 GMT -5
If and it is a big if.....JP starts recruiting full time, can begin to lower the amount of turnover and win 18+ consistently then he can keep the job. But nothing in the past 5 years shows me that he is capable of that. Meaning I don’t think there is an argument to keep him around. 1. Holy Crap!!...STARTS recruiting full time!?!?! 2. My problem with this whole concept is that it requires us to wait another few years to see how it pans out. The school needs to accept that they made a sh*thouse decision to extend his contract and eat it. The markets have been super strong so that $100M endowment must be closer to $125 by now. Peel off < 1% and get rid of this turd. I can say with relative certainty that they'll have 4 extra seats to sell in Sec 121 next year if they don't. Here's my problem with the long term contracts with big buyouts...they do zero to lock in the coach. If a BCS school wants him, he's gone. Sure Siena makes a few bucks but in the end, aren't they better off with a few consecutive trips to the tourney? The more likely scenario is Siena eats that big contract. I really hope I'm wrong in my assumptions about what the contract looks like. I hope D'Arg and the admins are as stupid as I think they are. I would happily like to stand corrected.
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Jan 18, 2018 8:19:15 GMT -5
People can spin the last 4 years in a number of ways. Some will say Siena had 1 winning regular season in 4 years and no "N" Tournaments with lots of roster turnover. Others will say 3 top 5 finishes in 4 years, 2 seasons near the top of the nation in win total turnaround, a MAAC championship game bid, 6 games over .500 in MAAC play over that 4 year stretch, a CBI title, and most importantly having a 5 man senior class all graduate and send 4 to professional basketball. Year 1 was an A. Year 2 was a D due to the injuries. Year 3 was probably a B+ Year 4 was a C? That's definitely the biggest one for debate (could probably go anywhere from D to B depending on expectations) Year 5 is probably a D. There's a case there that with the 6th-most youthful team in the country per KenPom this year that he deserves one more year (as long as this team gets to say 6 MAAC wins) to try and make one more run at it, especially with the money owed. I think Siena SHOULD step up and say that more mediocrity shouldn't be tolerated and fire him, but I can understand why they could try to keep him. I think many have criticized JP's tenure too much, just like him it's been pretty so-so, not that bad but certainly not that good. It's going to come down to whether Siena thinks they can afford the buyout and whether Siena thinks they can afford to keep him with the potential loss in sponsors/ticket sales. sure, but just forget the youthful team argument..........he created that by mis-managing his recruiting, player defections, etc........no sugar coating that.......... I agree completely with that, but in fairness to GoldSaint, with $1M at stake I can certainly see the school seeing what one more year will do.
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Jan 21, 2018 6:46:47 GMT -5
If and it is a big if.....JP starts recruiting full time, can begin to lower the amount of turnover and win 18+ consistently then he can keep the job. But nothing in the past 5 years shows me that he is capable of that. Meaning I don’t think there is an argument to keep him around. Agree. 1- he has to land those (impact) recruits 2- he has to develop them and play to their strengths 3- he has to slow down the transfer rate or he will always have the 'we are forever young' excuse Personally, I am over the excuses..... Agree with these but will add two things: Make appropriate in game coaching adjustments; Win a reasonable amount of up games (ie A-10 games) and a vast majority of the should win and important games (ie beating AE teams, Albany, the Donks, PEs, Griffs, Foxes, Stags, etc). For rebuilding a quality MM all the above won't matter if he does not accomplish this... Unfortunately not going to happen with SoSo.
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Post by gosaints on Jan 21, 2018 8:59:26 GMT -5
Agree. 1- he has to land those (impact) recruits 2- he has to develop them and play to their strengths 3- he has to slow down the transfer rate or he will always have the 'we are forever young' excuse Personally, I am over the excuses..... Agree with these but will add two things: Make appropriate in game coaching adjustments; Win a reasonable amount of up games (ie A-10 games) and a vast majority of the should win and important games (ie beating AE teams, Albany, the Donks, PEs, Griffs, Foxes, Stags, etc). For rebuilding a quality MM all the above won't matter if he does not accomplish this... Unfortunately not going to happen with SoSo. Look even if he achieves all of these he quickly will get Fat (oops already is, sorry) Happy and Content and after another extension from So So D'Arg Siena will quickly swirl around and go down the toilet again! Do we really need/want this scenario again?
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bigfan
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Post by bigfan on Jan 21, 2018 11:44:59 GMT -5
I have stayed away from this thread because it has become a trashing session, which is just really old and tired stuff at this point. With few exceptions, I don't think anyone on this board is in favor of continuing the Patsos era, right?
With that said, I do actually think he brings a couple of positives to the program (maybe?):
1. Focus on culture/history exposure for the team. This is really cool, in my opinion. In Memphis, for example, their recent visit to the MLK Jr. museum is a big deal. I've never been there, but would like to visit some day. 2. If the donations numbers some have referenced are for real (at a historically high level), his salesmanship is a strength.
That's all I got, in response to the original question. Had always hoped that his salesmanship would result in strong recruiting, but that hasn't proven out so far, as we know.
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Jan 21, 2018 12:52:24 GMT -5
I have stayed away from this thread because it has become a trashing session, which is just really old and tired stuff at this point. With few exceptions, I don't think anyone on this board is in favor of continuing the Patsos era, right? With that said, I do actually think he brings a couple of positives to the program (maybe?): 1. Focus on culture/history exposure for the team. This is really cool, in my opinion. In Memphis, for example, their recent visit to the MLK Jr. museum is a big deal. I've never been there, but would like to visit some day. 2. If the donations numbers some have referenced are for real (at a historically high level), his salesmanship is a strength. That's all I got, in response to the original question. Had always hoped that his salesmanship would result in strong recruiting, but that hasn't proven out so far, as we know. So essentially he’s an overpaid History prof/Tour Guide at $375k and the donations are just as likely due to a stock market and economic upturn than a coach that can’t draw flies to the TU.
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Post by MTS on Jan 21, 2018 12:55:50 GMT -5
I have stayed away from this thread because it has become a trashing session, which is just really old and tired stuff at this point. With few exceptions, I don't think anyone on this board is in favor of continuing the Patsos era, right? With that said, I do actually think he brings a couple of positives to the program (maybe?): 1. Focus on culture/history exposure for the team. This is really cool, in my opinion. In Memphis, for example, their recent visit to the MLK Jr. museum is a big deal. I've never been there, but would like to visit some day. 2. If the donations numbers some have referenced are for real (at a historically high level), his salesmanship is a strength. That's all I got, in response to the original question. Had always hoped that his salesmanship would result in strong recruiting, but that hasn't proven out so far, as we know. #1 might be cool but he's the head basketball coach at a proud mid-major school not a sociologist. If you win you can do it but when you lose it's bad optics IMO. #2 Salesmanship should mean better recruits. People writing checks eventually won't keep writing them if they want to win (and have half a brain). If anything it shows the money is there to make the change and not cry our hands we tied we can't afford to dump him.
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