gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Jan 14, 2018 9:49:02 GMT -5
I'm not wired into what's happening on campus so I'll ask the question: Are at least some of you claiming that what's happening with the athletic program in general, but more specifically with the BB contingent, is a reflection of the condition of the College itself? I shudder at the thought.If the administration is satisfied with mediocrity or worse in these high profile, high cost programs,what else is going wrong? Proof is in the pudding so to speak-- why else would you extend a career 500 coach after 1 winning regular season? Or extend a head coach with an overall losing record like AJax after she had 1 winning season- you are basically saying we are fine with mediocrity. When is last time you heard Siena say our stated goal is compete for MAAC title every year? Now it seems the stated goal is not to finish in PIG or heaven forbid post a winning regular season something the Men and women both seldom accomplish I don’t know if Darg is downgrading programs or it’s a business decision on Siena’s part- like I said somebody is approving these guaranteed contract extensions . They got it in their heads that they always have to have 4 years to assist with recruiting. It’s a dumb premise given all the transfers and it leads to apathy on the part of the coach, especially one like jimmy. I really hope it was just a miscalculation and not a conscious business decision. If so why not give up the ghost and just head back to the arc? Why do we spend so much money on hoops if it wasn’t a major revenue boost for the school? Last I checked our budget was ranked in the top 125 of all d1, which is where I want performance to be. We just aren’t getting our moneys worth.
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Post by goldsaint17 on Jan 14, 2018 9:53:48 GMT -5
At the time I don’t think either extension was that bad. After year 1 to win a postseason tournament and bring the excitement back to Siena basketball, a small extension to give a raise and show of confidence was the right move. The second extension was 50-50, Siena had one of the bigger win turnarounds in D1 despite being without Marquis Wright for most of the year. What got me was that they were deliberating about giving an extension and Darg folded like a cheap suit as soon as that dumb Texas Tech rumor popped up.
Siena’s struggles are fairly emblematic of the entire MAAC over the last 8 years. Programs simply haven’t hired the right coaches. Maker at Marist is a dud. Same with Sydney Johnson at Fairfield and Chris Casey at Niagara. Patsos, Baggett, Dunne, and Weatherspoon are all .500 coaches who occasionally will jump into the top 3 and occasionally bottom out. Masiello hasn’t done anything since those 2 NCAA bids, struggling on the recruiting trail too. King Rice never won the big game with one of the best rosters in MAAC history and his program seems to be going back quickly to what it was before. That leaves Quinnipiac with Dunleavy and Iona with Cluess. At best there are 6 guys who deserve to have MAAC coaching jobs in that group.
Siena is fine long-term. It’s a place you can win a lot of college basketball games. But with the school in some financial troubles and the athletic programs trying to hold onto the success of 2008-2010, we have become super conservative. Darg as an AD has virtually gone into the same mode that a JP offense goes into when it has a lead with 6 minutes to play.... just stand around and play not to lose. Keeping JP after this season would be yet another example of this. It would be accepting that the previous 4 seasons were good enough to give him a pass for this year. While they’ve been solid, they haven’t been good enough and they haven’t shown the program to be on an upward trajectory. If the administration is serious about bringing Siena back to being a top tier MAAC team year in and year out, then they need to make a move and they need to go out and get a young high-major assistant who will recruit his tail off and give him an assistant coaching budget that will allow in to go get guys that help build that winning culture.
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olddave
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Post by olddave on Jan 14, 2018 9:54:53 GMT -5
Instead of responding one on one group response Great Responses, ideas. We all recognize their is a challenge to the college, globally, not just operationally, academically, and athletically. BTW this is systemic to the academic world, not just Siena, just well hid. Its the institutions that meet the challenge not running from it that will survive.
Not sure what BOT you spoke to, don't want to know, they feel that way their duty is to resign, or speak up. Can't handle the responsibility than move on. BOT, presidents, AD's need to be able to make decisions, yes the hard ones.
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Post by Tony on Jan 14, 2018 10:15:49 GMT -5
To be clear I don’t have any problem with 1 year extension after 1st year – I seriously question the extension after the 21-13 season, the year before Jimmy went 11-20- by then it was already known he was “lazy” ineffective recruiter, so no that guaranteed extension was no way shape or form warranted or even close to 50-50 he still had 3 years guarantee left. BTW just to be clear since the contract extension and guarantee that went along with it, So-so Jimbo is 22-31—with two successive down years. With the security the extension brought Jimbo has basically shut down shop from mid-march till late August. Was about worse thing Darg could have done is give that kind of security to Jimmy. He is worried about his job, so NOW he is recruiting harder than ever- how does that make you feel as a Siena fan? I mean I’m grateful he is recruiting hard, but my first thought is where the hell was that mentality the last 5 years- he obviously feels no pressure from our AD – which again is big part of problem
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gorvy
Associate Head Coach
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Post by gorvy on Jan 14, 2018 10:19:21 GMT -5
He may be part of the problem but we the super fans are part of the solution. Our job is to keep ratcheting up the pressure lol
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Post by sienafanallyearlong2 on Jan 14, 2018 11:17:46 GMT -5
If Siena wants to return to prominence and beyond, they "need" to think-big, and make big decisions that are hand in hand with the think-big philosophy.
Anything less than that could be the end of the Siena program as we still know it to be right now, which is much less than what it once was.
They "need" to cut their losses as I have been saying all season long right now this week, before Thursday's game.
They need to fire both the HC and the AD today or tomorrow.
Doing anything but this is causing much more harm to the health and future of the program, starting with the remainder of this season.
Why not get the "immediate" shot of energy and hope for the remainder of the season that you would "automatically" get with the firing of both the AD and HC today. They both have to go, and go together.
This mess is as much or more being about the AD as it is about the HC.
Think about it. You have a dead man walking HC out there right now saying he is recruiting harder than he ever has in his 5 yrs here.
That is crazy.
That means you have somebody out there right now who is still today, the continued face of Siena "making decisions" this week (as he said he has a number of recruits coming for the Marist game) on the health of "next" four yrs of this program.
Now that is really really crazy; especially since he has no publicly known scholarships even available.
Decisions that well after he is gone (assuming that he will not be returning as head coach after this year) are still having an effect on this program.
Do you really want more scholarship offers coming from a guy who has brought nothing but lots of drama and mediocrity or less to this program?
If your going to have to pay him regardless of when you fire him, why would you not fire him now?
Please. Do it before he ties the hands of the next coach that much more by making more offers than he already has to offer.
He already is effecting the next coach enough with the current roster he has minus any seniors so why let it continue?
He is hurting the program that much more every day he is here.
Recruiting for next year is so bad to do to the kids first, and the paying sponsors, contributing alumni, student body, season ticket holders, and general fan base second.
Think about it. He has no available scholarships for next year. He gets a committment. He runs Nico off the team. He now has an available scholarship available for that committment.
He is still recruiting for next year's roster. Yet currwntly there are no available scholarships to give out. This means he has to run more kids off this team for him to provide any more offers.
That means a number of kids are already on their way out, regardless if they know it right now or not.
You can't keep him Siena. He is hurting your program. They both are.
Please fire them both tomorrow.
Then hire a strong AD first. Then a strong Power 5 Asst next to be your next HC.
Both need to have big-time, big-dream aspirations. Guys who are willing to put Siena on the big stage.
Guys who regardless of record or roster, are willing and able to play a non conference schedule filled with Power 5 schools that your not complaining about playing where you can then recruit accordingly to getting the type of players who can effectively compete against this type of schedule.
That's how you get this school back to prominence. Think-Big. Dream-Bigger. Actions follow suite.
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Jan 14, 2018 11:24:05 GMT -5
So you want to fire a guy today and the ad that have 40 years of experience between them for $1.5 million plus and replace them with somebody with no head coaching experience at all? Sounds like a brilliant plan. The time to gamble on a high major assistant was when mccaffery left. The stakes are much higher now and Siena needs to make a slam dunk hire when it is ready.
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Jan 14, 2018 11:29:26 GMT -5
At the time I don’t think either extension was that bad. After year 1 to win a postseason tournament and bring the excitement back to Siena basketball, a small extension to give a raise and show of confidence was the right move. The second extension was 50-50, Siena had one of the bigger win turnarounds in D1 despite being without Marquis Wright for most of the year. What got me was that they were deliberating about giving an extension and Darg folded like a cheap suit as soon as that dumb Texas Tech rumor popped up. Siena’s struggles are fairly emblematic of the entire MAAC over the last 8 years. Programs simply haven’t hired the right coaches. Maker at Marist is a dud. Same with Sydney Johnson at Fairfield and Chris Casey at Niagara. Patsos, Baggett, Dunne, and Weatherspoon are all .500 coaches who occasionally will jump into the top 3 and occasionally bottom out. Masiello hasn’t done anything since those 2 NCAA bids, struggling on the recruiting trail too. King Rice never won the big game with one of the best rosters in MAAC history and his program seems to be going back quickly to what it was before. That leaves Quinnipiac with Dunleavy and Iona with Cluess. At best there are 6 guys who deserve to have MAAC coaching jobs in that group. Siena is fine long-term. It’s a place you can win a lot of college basketball games. But with the school in some financial troubles and the athletic programs trying to hold onto the success of 2008-2010, we have become super conservative. Darg as an AD has virtually gone into the same mode that a JP offense goes into when it has a lead with 6 minutes to play.... just stand around and play not to lose. Keeping JP after this season would be yet another example of this. It would be accepting that the previous 4 seasons were good enough to give him a pass for this year. While they’ve been solid, they haven’t been good enough and they haven’t shown the program to be on an upward trajectory. If the administration is serious about bringing Siena back to being a top tier MAAC team year in and year out, then they need to make a move and they need to go out and get a young high-major assistant who will recruit his tail off and give him an assistant coaching budget that will allow in to go get guys that help build that winning culture. Extension was horrible, it was year 1 Patsos wasn’t going anywhere.
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Papi
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Post by Papi on Jan 14, 2018 11:34:34 GMT -5
You guys need to look at Siena minus the 3 year run with the greatest team in Siena history and close to the greatest team in maac history. Then Siena is ok and right where it should be.
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Post by goldsaint17 on Jan 14, 2018 11:38:21 GMT -5
Firing a coach midseason is not a good plan. Firing an AD on a whim without the time to replace him (AD searches take 2-3 months, by then many of the better candidates for the HC vacancy are gone) is suicide. If we are looking for a complete overhaul with replacing Darg, the way it works is he retires effective the end of the academic year (end of June). We begin a search and the new AD comes in July 1. Has a year to fix the things behind the scenes and get acclimated to the school and it’s coaches, and then he can fire JP after next year if the team doesn’t have an awesome year.
That said I don’t think D’Arg is realistically leaving. Like I said, the College likes him a lot and as has been referenced earlier on this board, fundraising through Saints Alive is at a high. Combine that with the facility upgrades he’s been able to implement recently (practice facility, ARC renovations, weight room, baseball field upgrade) and I don’t think there’s much of a chance that he gets pushed out. D’Arg will be involved in this hire, as should a private search firm and some sort of committee. As Tony has said several times, priests can’t be making all the basketball decisions, which is why this is a big test for Brother Ed. He has to allow D’Arg and the rest of a committee to make a decision on a new coach that will represent the school well and win lots of games.
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Post by goldsaint17 on Jan 14, 2018 11:40:57 GMT -5
At the time I don’t think either extension was that bad. After year 1 to win a postseason tournament and bring the excitement back to Siena basketball, a small extension to give a raise and show of confidence was the right move. The second extension was 50-50, Siena had one of the bigger win turnarounds in D1 despite being without Marquis Wright for most of the year. What got me was that they were deliberating about giving an extension and Darg folded like a cheap suit as soon as that dumb Texas Tech rumor popped up. Siena’s struggles are fairly emblematic of the entire MAAC over the last 8 years. Programs simply haven’t hired the right coaches. Maker at Marist is a dud. Same with Sydney Johnson at Fairfield and Chris Casey at Niagara. Patsos, Baggett, Dunne, and Weatherspoon are all .500 coaches who occasionally will jump into the top 3 and occasionally bottom out. Masiello hasn’t done anything since those 2 NCAA bids, struggling on the recruiting trail too. King Rice never won the big game with one of the best rosters in MAAC history and his program seems to be going back quickly to what it was before. That leaves Quinnipiac with Dunleavy and Iona with Cluess. At best there are 6 guys who deserve to have MAAC coaching jobs in that group. Siena is fine long-term. It’s a place you can win a lot of college basketball games. But with the school in some financial troubles and the athletic programs trying to hold onto the success of 2008-2010, we have become super conservative. Darg as an AD has virtually gone into the same mode that a JP offense goes into when it has a lead with 6 minutes to play.... just stand around and play not to lose. Keeping JP after this season would be yet another example of this. It would be accepting that the previous 4 seasons were good enough to give him a pass for this year. While they’ve been solid, they haven’t been good enough and they haven’t shown the program to be on an upward trajectory. If the administration is serious about bringing Siena back to being a top tier MAAC team year in and year out, then they need to make a move and they need to go out and get a young high-major assistant who will recruit his tail off and give him an assistant coaching budget that will allow in to go get guys that help build that winning culture. Extension was horrible, it was year 1 Patsos wasn’t going anywhere. All that extension did was give him a raise and add 1 year at the end. That’s not exactly a problem in my book. He won a postseason tournament and finished top 5 in the MAAC in year 1, it was deserved. Extensions in CBB aren’t just to prevent someone from leaving. They reward success and keep relationship between coach and admin strong, as well as make a public statement that you believe in what the coach is building.
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Post by diamonddog on Jan 14, 2018 11:41:41 GMT -5
I know this isn't a fair comparison due to mid major school vs major school, but look at Anton Goff, Athletic Director, at Saint Johns. He is answering questions and being honest what is happening over there.
From what I've heard here, D'Argenio has been ignoring the problems that the athletic department faces.
Take a look at their twitters- Goff answers questions with honesty, while D'Argenio has been quiet except what you find in a newspaper.
What a difference a person makes in an organization.
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Jan 14, 2018 11:42:04 GMT -5
You guys need to look at Siena minus the 3 year run with the greatest team in Siena history and close to the greatest team in maac history. Then Siena is ok and right where it should be. Right where we should be LOL - Last place? You still don’t get it, yes losing is rough but there are other major issues and concerns with this guy; like losing 80% of your first 3 recruiting classes, staff turnover, vacations during key recruiting cycles, treatment of players, mismanaged games, inability to determine player rotations. This guy is either boarderline incompetent or just doesn’t care. Five years in and we’re worse off vs. year one. That’s a major red flag!
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mjs72
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Post by mjs72 on Jan 14, 2018 11:44:00 GMT -5
You guys need to look at Siena minus the 3 year run with the greatest team in Siena history and close to the greatest team in maac history. Then Siena is ok and right where it should be. Papi, another poster called you on a similar claim by you a couple of weeks ago. The Fran years may have been our high point but the Deane and Hewitt years earned us a reputation as a strong MM program. Yes, there were the Beer and Lanier interludes but each team we returned to our level. Nothing like the last 8 years.
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brian
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Post by brian on Jan 14, 2018 11:50:29 GMT -5
So you want to fire a guy today and the ad that have 40 years of experience between them for $1.5 million plus and replace them with somebody with no head coaching experience at all? Sounds like a brilliant plan. The time to gamble on a high major assistant was when mccaffery left. The stakes are much higher now and Siena needs to make a slam dunk hire when it is ready. I see very little evidence that we could land a good experienced DI Head Coach.
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