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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2015 9:54:08 GMT -5
Th24 knows the truth as do all of us. Like it or not Lavon Long IS the starting 3 for the next 2 years. Book it. Just the facts maam, just the facts. It's Patsos funeral he can do whatever he pleases. Maybe with Brett coming back Lavon's game improves and the pressure comes off him a bit ...... We can only hope that's the case if JP doesn't bring in a legit 3. Lavon put up the same stats with Brett. PG- Wright 6-0, Wormley 6-2 SG- Clareth 6-4, Oliver 6-5, LaRose 6-5 SF- Long 6-7, Paige 6-4, White 6-4 PF- Bisping 6-8, Brandwijk 6-8, Fisher 6-8 C- Ogunyemi 6-8, Silas 6-8 That's what we got right now. Way more depth at PF and C. The SF depth doesn't score as much as the PFs do..nor likely as much as the backup SGs. The SGs are at least the same size or bigger than them as well. On top of that the SGs are slower afoot. If you need Oliver and LaRose to play for their shooting, where are they best? ....Alongside the speed of Wright and Clareth...not behind it. If the team needs points...where are they going to go? Long is always on the bench for fouls. If 2 of those 3 SGs take advantage, he could be supplanted. They will likely turn it over and foul less. Oliver is practically playing starters minutes right now and Jimmy has a comfort level with him. As much as Long is supposed to be Jimmy's boy, he needs to win. If his fouls and turnovers start to get in the way of that, Patsos may turn to others. It's largely up to the SGs but if they prove solid, Lavon's minutes could dip.
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Post by hoopfan1988 on Mar 3, 2015 10:12:35 GMT -5
It's Patsos funeral he can do whatever he pleases. Maybe with Brett coming back Lavon's game improves and the pressure comes off him a bit ...... We can only hope that's the case if JP doesn't bring in a legit 3. Lavon put up the same stats with Brett. PG- Wright 6-0, Wormley 6-2 SG- Clareth 6-4, Oliver 6-5, LaRose 6-5 SF- Long 6-7, Paige 6-4, White 6-4 PF- Bisping 6-8, Brandwijk 6-8, Fisher 6-8 C- Ogunyemi 6-8, Silas 6-8 That's what we got right now. Way more depth at PF and C. The SF depth doesn't score as much as the PFs do..nor likely as much as the backup SGs. The SGs are at least the same size or bigger than them as well. On top of that the SGs are slower afoot. If you need Oliver and LaRose to play for their shooting, where are they best? ....Alongside the speed of Wright and Clareth...not behind it. If the team needs points...where are they going to go? Long is always on the bench for fouls. If 2 of those 3 SGs take advantage, he could be supplanted. They will likely turn it over and foul less. Oliver is practically playing starters minutes right now and Jimmy has a comfort level with him. As much as Long is supposed to be Jimmy's boy, he needs to win. If his fouls and turnovers start to get in the way of that, Patsos may turn to others. It's largely up to the SGs but if they prove solid, Lavon's minutes could dip. KK's post are spot on. I think Jimmy sent a message of change when he commented that JO and Wright were becoming his two best players and leaders. He penciled them in for next year. Read between the lines. He will not go down in flames to protect the position of any player if it does not benefit the team. That's not the way college coaches operate. The SF position is up for grabs next year. He must have a kid at the SF who can shoot or operate off the bounce. A college team with one outside scoring threat on the floor won't win many games. With Poole gone, outside of Oliver who is a proven shooter on the team?
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JK
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Post by JK on Mar 3, 2015 10:24:22 GMT -5
We've seen Long get into beast mode and has the potential to carry the team. This year has been disappointing, but with a better team around him it should open him up more. Remember he has some range on his shot and gives the team some different options at SF with his ability to play inside or outside the paint. Yes, the foul situation is at a point where it is almost intolerable. I hope the off-season and the additions to next year's team help with that. I don't think Siena is going to have a better SF than Long the next couple of years, but they do need someone to jump in and be able to play some quality minutes if the foul situation does not improve.
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SaintMisbehavin
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Post by SaintMisbehavin on Mar 3, 2015 10:25:12 GMT -5
He may be averaging the same numbers as last year right now, but here are Lavon's averages over the last 7 games:
MIN FG% FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS 24.57 0.27 0.73 4.43 1.00 0.57 0.43 4.86 2.29 5.0
Clearly his production is way down at this point, and as Tony mentioned it's obvious that he isn't 100% right now. While I agree that Lavon has to overcome some glaring weaknesses (improve ambidexterity, agility, foul situation), if you're basing his potential solely on the past half-dozen games or so, you're being shortsighted in knowing what he can bring to this team when at 100%.
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JK
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Post by JK on Mar 3, 2015 10:41:36 GMT -5
He did a nice job as a freshman and we all hoped that he could build upon that. Last season we all waited for "Lavon Time" when the team really needed that extra push to win the game, but that just has not happened this year. That's how I am basing his potential. I am hoping that injuries are the major reason that his production is what it is - it can be so much better. Obviously the fouls are a different story, the injuries have not helped, but it's a big hole in his game that needs to improve in his 3rd year. He has some great skills and I can't imagine he has hit his ceiling.
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Mar 3, 2015 10:45:28 GMT -5
So a kid that is on pace to break the all-time foul record shouldn't be protected by being 6th man? Look at Drame from Quinny this year. He still made 2nd team all maac. Look at Laury last year for Iona. Same thing. Not saying Long isn't needed I'm saying his role as 6th man might help him stay on the floor longer because of the ability to control his match-ups more. +1mm
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2015 11:12:41 GMT -5
He may be averaging the same numbers as last year right now, but here are Lavon's averages over the last 7 games: MIN FG% FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS 24.57 0.27 0.73 4.43 1.00 0.57 0.43 4.86 2.29 5.0 Clearly his production is way down at this point, and as Tony mentioned it's obvious that he isn't 100% right now. While I agree that Lavon has to overcome some glaring weaknesses (improve ambidexterity, agility, foul situation), if you're basing his potential solely on the past half-dozen games or so, you're being shortsighted in knowing what he can bring to this team when at 100%. Not shortsighted. In fact, the opposite, -We have a PG who doesn't shoot 3's well. The perimeter shooting has to come from somewhere. He needs to shoot and score more...not less. -Also, can we afford turnovers and needless fouls out of the SF position? Many teams are playing guys who don't foul, shoot threes, and take care of the ball at that position. If he can't defend the position much better than say a Ryan Oliver anyway, why give up the turnovers and fouls on top of it and compound the issues? Look at a guy like Jamal Reynolds of Canisius. Plays 24 mins, averages 6 & 6 and takes care of the ball (2 to 1 assist ratio)...yet doesn't foul (53 in more mins while Lavon has 104). So he doesn't turn it over, rebounds more, and fouls way less. By the numbers, he beats Lavon in team contribution. And he's just 6-4. I think people are falling too much for the Lavon hype and not realizing that most MAAC teams have better overall options playing the SF right now. You CAN'T disregard the monumental impact of Lavon's fouls on the game. He's committing 2x as many fouls as your typical MAAC small forward. This has nothing to do with injury either as he set a record of 148 when he was healthy. Lavon Long has scoring talent but he is putting this team at a disadvantage in most other facets of the game. He should no longer be trusted with a blank check.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Mar 3, 2015 11:12:58 GMT -5
We've seen Long get into beast mode and has the potential to carry the team. This year has been disappointing, but with a better team around him it should open him up more. Remember he has some range on his shot and gives the team some different options at SF with his ability to play inside or outside the paint. Yes, the foul situation is at a point where it is almost intolerable. I hope the off-season and the additions to next year's team help with that. I don't think Siena is going to have a better SF than Long the next couple of years, but they do need someone to jump in and be able to play some quality minutes if the foul situation does not improve. Excellent post. The return of Brett and Imoh will help Lavon more than anyone. He needs to play with size and not be the size. His fouls are big man fouls and he is doubled in the post with no room to work. He has more success with the ball in his hands creating for himself and his teammates He will continue to work on weaknesses.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Mar 3, 2015 11:18:49 GMT -5
"Another dumb pointless comment", now that's really funny coming from you! What's better coming off the bench with the ability to help the team and play or going to the bench DQ'd after picking up 5 fouls resulting in FTs for the opposition? One thing Siena needs to do is win against the top teams in the maac. The past two years they have won like 4 games vs teams that have finished higher in the standings. Tho year a woeful 2-12. And these are the comments that show you either are not watching the games or you don't know What you are watching. Lavon has played entire first halves without fouling at all then picked up 4 or 5 in the second half. So not starting does not help him or the team. When Silas and Imoh come back along with the freshmen Lavon can play his game
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SaintMisbehavin
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Post by SaintMisbehavin on Mar 3, 2015 11:19:27 GMT -5
He may be averaging the same numbers as last year right now, but here are Lavon's averages over the last 7 games: MIN FG% FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS 24.57 0.27 0.73 4.43 1.00 0.57 0.43 4.86 2.29 5.0 Clearly his production is way down at this point, and as Tony mentioned it's obvious that he isn't 100% right now. While I agree that Lavon has to overcome some glaring weaknesses (improve ambidexterity, agility, foul situation), if you're basing his potential solely on the past half-dozen games or so, you're being shortsighted in knowing what he can bring to this team when at 100%. Not shortsighted. In fact, the opposite, -We have a PG who doesn't shoot 3's well. The perimeter shooting has to come from somewhere. He needs to shoot and score more...not less. -Also, can we afford turnovers and needless fouls out of the SF position? Many teams are playing guys who don't foul, shoot threes, and take care of the ball at that position. If he can't defend the position much better than say a Ryan Oliver anyway, why give up the turnovers and fouls on top of it and compound the issues? Look at a guy like Jamal Reynolds of Canisius. Plays 24 mins, averages 6 & 6 and takes care of the ball (2 to 1 assist ratio)...yet doesn't foul (53 in more mins while Lavon has 104). So he doesn't turn it over, rebounds more, and fouls way less. By the numbers, he beats Lavon in team contribution. And he's just 6-4. I think people are falling too much for the Lavon hype and not realizing that most MAAC teams have better overall options playing the SF right now. You CAN'T disregard the monumental impact of Lavon's fouls on the game. He's committing 2x as many fouls as your typical MAAC small forward. This has nothing to do with injury either as he set a record of 148 when he was healthy. Lavon Long has scoring talent but he is putting this team at a disadvantage in most other facets of the game. He should no longer be trusted with a blank check. I don't disagree with a word you said. I wasn't commenting on Long's position or that he should be our starting 3. Simply commenting that his production is way down recently, which is magnifying his weaknesses at the moment.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Mar 3, 2015 11:28:39 GMT -5
Lavon put up the same stats with Brett. PG- Wright 6-0, Wormley 6-2 SG- Clareth 6-4, Oliver 6-5, LaRose 6-5 SF- Long 6-7, Paige 6-4, White 6-4 PF- Bisping 6-8, Brandwijk 6-8, Fisher 6-8 C- Ogunyemi 6-8, Silas 6-8 That's what we got right now. Way more depth at PF and C. The SF depth doesn't score as much as the PFs do..nor likely as much as the backup SGs. The SGs are at least the same size or bigger than them as well. On top of that the SGs are slower afoot. If you need Oliver and LaRose to play for their shooting, where are they best? ....Alongside the speed of Wright and Clareth...not behind it. If the team needs points...where are they going to go? Long is always on the bench for fouls. If 2 of those 3 SGs take advantage, he could be supplanted. They will likely turn it over and foul less. Oliver is practically playing starters minutes right now and Jimmy has a comfort level with him. As much as Long is supposed to be Jimmy's boy, he needs to win. If his fouls and turnovers start to get in the way of that, Patsos may turn to others. It's largely up to the SGs but if they prove solid, Lavon's minutes could dip. KK's post are spot on. I think Jimmy sent a message of change when he commented that JO and Wright were becoming his two best players and leaders. He penciled them in for next year. Read between the lines. He will not go down in flames to protect the position of any player if it does not benefit the team. That's not the way college coaches operate. The SF position is up for grabs next year. He must have a kid at the SF who can shoot or operate off the bounce. A college team with one outside scoring threat on the floor won't win many games. With Poole gone, outside of Oliver who is a proven shooter on the team? You said this last season lol Now what Patsos said was JO and Wright were leaders...he did not say best players And there are other quotes during the season that he made about Lavon when he played well It would be great if we got a player better than Lavon...we would be that much deeper and better. I just don't see it because Lavon won't stop working and improving. This or last season was the time to beat him out. I expect to see him putting it all together as a upper class men.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Mar 3, 2015 11:35:13 GMT -5
The top 20 foulers in the country are mostly PFs and centers. There is one other guard on the list with Lavon. I don't know about that player but Lavon gets his big man fouls. Brett averaged 4.2 fouls per game before he went down this season. And with Imoh already gone Lavon and JO pick up the fouls inside. JO has had 4 fouls in the last couple games and has almost the same amount of fouls Lavon has in 4 more games. Fouls are called inside a lot in MM basketball
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Post by playerparentcoach on Mar 3, 2015 11:36:56 GMT -5
Not shortsighted. In fact, the opposite, -We have a PG who doesn't shoot 3's well. The perimeter shooting has to come from somewhere. He needs to shoot and score more...not less. -Also, can we afford turnovers and needless fouls out of the SF position? Many teams are playing guys who don't foul, shoot threes, and take care of the ball at that position. If he can't defend the position much better than say a Ryan Oliver anyway, why give up the turnovers and fouls on top of it and compound the issues? Look at a guy like Jamal Reynolds of Canisius. Plays 24 mins, averages 6 & 6 and takes care of the ball (2 to 1 assist ratio)...yet doesn't foul (53 in more mins while Lavon has 104). So he doesn't turn it over, rebounds more, and fouls way less. By the numbers, he beats Lavon in team contribution. And he's just 6-4. I think people are falling too much for the Lavon hype and not realizing that most MAAC teams have better overall options playing the SF right now. You CAN'T disregard the monumental impact of Lavon's fouls on the game. He's committing 2x as many fouls as your typical MAAC small forward. This has nothing to do with injury either as he set a record of 148 when he was healthy. Lavon Long has scoring talent but he is putting this team at a disadvantage in most other facets of the game. He should no longer be trusted with a blank check. I don't disagree with a word you said. I wasn't commenting on Long's position or that he should be our starting 3. Simply commenting that his production is way down recently, which is magnifying his weaknesses at the moment. Good point
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SIENA1971
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Post by SIENA1971 on Mar 3, 2015 11:37:30 GMT -5
My prediction is that when Lavon graduates from Siena he will be remembered for being a contributor and not solely for his fouls ... He has the work ethic to accomplish this.
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JK
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Post by JK on Mar 3, 2015 11:51:19 GMT -5
We've seen Long get into beast mode and has the potential to carry the team. This year has been disappointing, but with a better team around him it should open him up more. Remember he has some range on his shot and gives the team some different options at SF with his ability to play inside or outside the paint. Yes, the foul situation is at a point where it is almost intolerable. I hope the off-season and the additions to next year's team help with that. I don't think Siena is going to have a better SF than Long the next couple of years, but they do need someone to jump in and be able to play some quality minutes if the foul situation does not improve. Excellent post. The return of Brett and Imoh will help Lavon more than anyone. He needs to play with size and not be the size. His fouls are big man fouls and he is doubled in the post with no room to work. He has more success with the ball in his hands creating for himself and his teammates He will continue to work on weaknesses. I think that the development of Brandwijk is huge for next season. This allows the team to stay big with Bisping or Imoh out if they choose to do so and not be forced to go smaller. For me that is an important option to have, especially if you are playing an opponent where size matters more (I'll let you guys take it from here...) like a quality OOC team.
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