bigsaintg
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Post by bigsaintg on Jun 13, 2014 15:29:58 GMT -5
If Oliver plays like he did the last 10 games all year, I think he could be a solid swing man off the bench or play 20 minutes as a starter. I think his injuries have slowed him and may limit his upside, but I like his long arms and length in the zone on wing. We just need to stay healthy and have every player make solid gains
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Post by MTS on Jun 13, 2014 15:39:44 GMT -5
A few counterpoints yes Siena was 15-17 before the CBI last year but we played an absolutely brutal schedule (going to the Old Spice was that team was insane) and how many close losses did we have during the year (Quinny up 9 with 3:15 to go, Marist debacle on the road, Canisius in 3OT, @ Monmouth by 4, LaSalle up 8 with 6 to go etc). While I agree with your overall point that Siena showed improvement last year and has promise, I think last year's Siena team was what their record indicated they were. You can point out these games where Siena s hould have/could have won, but don't forget about the Cornell and St. Bonaventure games that they could have/should have lost. Fair point. But those games were in November too. However since January 23 after falling to 7-12 Siena went 13-6 the rest of the season with an average margin of victory of 8 points with 5 double digit wins. The six losses were by 8 (in OT), 1, 4 in (3 OT) 6, 13 and 14. The team got better and better as the season went on which is why most fans are very encouraged about Siena's prospects in 2014-2015.
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SaintMisbehavin
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Post by SaintMisbehavin on Jun 13, 2014 15:55:54 GMT -5
While I agree with your overall point that Siena showed improvement last year and has promise, I think last year's Siena team was what their record indicated they were. You can point out these games where Siena s hould have/could have won, but don't forget about the Cornell and St. Bonaventure games that they could have/should have lost. Fair point. But those games were in November too. However since January 23 after falling to 7-12 Siena went 13-6 the rest of the season with an average margin of victory of 8 points with 5 double digit wins. The six losses were by 8 (in OT), 1, 4 in (3 OT) 6, 13 and 14. The team got better and better as the season went on which is why most fans are very encouraged about Siena's prospects in 2014-2015. I completely agree that the team improved throughout the year, and that fans should be encouraged about '14-'15. Returning contributors + Softer (read: more manageable, not "easy") schedule + potential Xfactor eligible recruits & impact freshman = formula for optimism. I just try to steer clear of the "if only" comments, or excluding certain results to make a point. Did we play better in January - March then in Nov-Dec? Absolutely. Yet we still had those games in November where Siena made great crunch-time plays to win close games, and also had games in February where we made bad crunch time plays to lose close games. My point is, they come to a point where they essentially cancel each other out, and our record was in fact indicative of the overall season.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2014 16:55:24 GMT -5
This should be great board fodder.
I don't know how much others visit KenPom.com and see this but he does an algorithm to determine most used lineups based on PT and stats and whatever. This is what he came up with. And I find it extremely funny.
Most frequent lineups over the past 5 games: PG-----------------------SG-------------SF---------------PF---------------------C-------------Pct Marquis Wright---Ryan Oliver---Rob Poole----Lavon Long---------Brett Bisping----17.8% Marquis Wright---Ryan Oliver---Rob Poole----Javion Ogunyemi--Brett Bisping----12.3% Marquis Wright---Rob Poole-----Lavon Long--Brett Bisping-------Imoh Silas--------6.5% Evan Hymes------Ryan Oliver---Rob Poole-----Lavon Long--------Brett Bisping-----4.1% Marquis Wright---Evan Hymes--Rob Poole-----Lavon Long-------Brett Bisping------4.1% Marquis Wright---Evan Hymes--Ryan Oliver---Lavon Long-------Brett Bisping-------3.9% Marquis Wright---Ryan Oliver---Rob Poole-----Lavon Long-------Javion Ogunyemi--3.5% Marquis Wright---Evan Hymes--Rob Poole-----Maurice White----Javion Ogunyemi --3.5% Marquis Wright---Ryan Oliver--Rob Poole------Lavon Long-------Imoh Silas-----------3.5% Marquis Wright---Evan Hymes--Rob Poole-----Lavon Long-------Javion Ogunyemi---3.1% UNKNOWN 7.5%
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Post by MTS on Jun 13, 2014 17:01:03 GMT -5
Fair point. But those games were in November too. However since January 23 after falling to 7-12 Siena went 13-6 the rest of the season with an average margin of victory of 8 points with 5 double digit wins. The six losses were by 8 (in OT), 1, 4 in (3 OT) 6, 13 and 14. The team got better and better as the season went on which is why most fans are very encouraged about Siena's prospects in 2014-2015. I completely agree that the team improved throughout the year, and that fans should be encouraged about '14-'15. Returning contributors + Softer (read: more manageable, not "easy") schedule + potential Xfactor eligible recruits & impact freshman = formula for optimism. I just try to steer clear of the "if only" comments, or excluding certain results to make a point. Did we play better in January - March then in Nov-Dec? Absolutely. Yet we still had those games in November where Siena made great crunch-time plays to win close games, and also had games in February where we made bad crunch time plays to lose close games. My point is, they come to a point where they essentially cancel each other out, and our record was in fact indicative of the overall season. I don't disagree we were a 20-18 team which comes out to a .526 winning percentage..that is about what we were a slightly above .500 team. Had we had a more manageable schedule we likely would have been over .500 in the regular season which is likely why the CBI sent out an invite to Siena (along with a winning conference record). Bringing back the entire team combined with a promising transfer in Cole and two potentially impact freshmen and the potential is there for a very good team. The key to how good we'll be is how much guys like Wright, Long, JO and White improve from last year. We know that Poole and Bisping are good but their ceilings aren't nearly what the sophomores are.
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Post by Tony on Jun 13, 2014 17:15:48 GMT -5
I don’t know about you guys but the CBI was just frosting on the cake for me. I was satisfied with regular season. We were competitive, for the most part protected the home court and did this with one of the youngest teams in the country. We lose no one off last year’s team…let me repeat that we lose no one, Cole doesn’t have to live up to the “hype” he is not like Paige or Brandwijk—unproven at D1 level. Cole is a proven D1 double digit scorer. He went through practice last year knows Jimmy and the team. All we need out of Cole is to be “solid” .. not too much to ask of proven D1 scorer going into his 3rd season
As for expectations and question marks- I too expect the top of the MAAC to be solid, I will add Siena has by far fewer question marks than any team in conference- We know Siena will be very good next year—the only question with Siena is top 3 good or best in MAAC good Considering how young Siena will be again next year you know what the rest of the MAAC is hoping for—MAAC fans are for the most part shitting their pants over Siena - considering Siena will have meat of the team on floor the next 3 years easy to see their concern- if the MAAC doesn’t “get” Siena next year their chances of taking down the Saints don’t get better the next two
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Post by playerparentcoach on Jun 13, 2014 17:51:31 GMT -5
This should be great board fodder. I don't know how much others visit KenPom.com and see this but he does an algorithm to determine most used lineups based on PT and stats and whatever. This is what he came up with. And I find it extremely funny. Most frequent lineups over the past 5 games: PG-----------------------SG-------------SF---------------PF---------------------C-------------Pct Marquis Wright---Ryan Oliver---Rob Poole----Lavon Long---------Brett Bisping----17.8% Marquis Wright---Ryan Oliver---Rob Poole----Javion Ogunyemi--Brett Bisping----12.3% Marquis Wright---Rob Poole-----Lavon Long--Brett Bisping-------Imoh Silas--------6.5% Evan Hymes------Ryan Oliver---Rob Poole-----Lavon Long--------Brett Bisping-----4.1% Marquis Wright---Evan Hymes--Rob Poole-----Lavon Long-------Brett Bisping------4.1% Marquis Wright---Evan Hymes--Ryan Oliver---Lavon Long-------Brett Bisping-------3.9% Marquis Wright---Ryan Oliver---Rob Poole-----Lavon Long-------Javion Ogunyemi--3.5% Marquis Wright---Evan Hymes--Rob Poole-----Maurice White----Javion Ogunyemi --3.5% Marquis Wright---Ryan Oliver--Rob Poole------Lavon Long-------Imoh Silas-----------3.5% Marquis Wright---Evan Hymes--Rob Poole-----Lavon Long-------Javion Ogunyemi---3.1% UNKNOWN 7.5% How do they know who is playing what position while the game is going on? Poole played some 4 and White played some 2 for example. You have to be the coach or real familiar with the system to know those things. Players change positions without making a substitution during the game ie. Wright played the 2 with Hymes at the point and had a play run for him. This team is more versatile than this list indicates. Last example Lavon played the 5 some with Bisping in with him playing the 4... I know that because I know the system and watched the game. Patsos uses his pieces based on the matchup.
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Post by Tony on Jun 13, 2014 19:04:28 GMT -5
that chart is worthless-- it has White playing PF 3.5% of the time
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Jun 13, 2014 19:55:13 GMT -5
I don’t know about you guys but the CBI was just frosting on the cake for me. I was satisfied with regular season. We were competitive, for the most part protected the home court and did this with one of the youngest teams in the country. We lose no one off last year’s team…let me repeat that we lose no one, Cole doesn’t have to live up to the “hype” he is not like Paige or Brandwijk—unproven at D1 level. Cole is a proven D1 double digit scorer. He went through practice last year knows Jimmy and the team. All we need out of Cole is to be “solid” .. not too much to ask of proven D1 scorer going into his 3rd season As for expectations and question marks- I too expect the top of the MAAC to be solid, I will add Siena has by far fewer question marks than any team in conference- We know Siena will be very good next year—the only question with Siena is top 3 good or best in MAAC good Considering how young Siena will be again next year you know what the rest of the MAAC is hoping for—MAAC fans are for the most part shitting their pants over Siena - considering Siena will have meat of the team on floor the next 3 years easy to see their concern- if the MAAC doesn’t “get” Siena next year their chances of taking down the Saints don’t get better the next two See, I do think we need someone to really step up and be that "go-to" guy that all MAAC Champs have. I like that we have a group of 4 or 5 guys that I feel could become that guy. A group of good players is always nice, but the great teams usually have someone special that stands out when a team needs it.
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bigsaintg
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Post by bigsaintg on Jun 13, 2014 19:57:07 GMT -5
I think Wright is that guy - he has something special about him
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Post by MTS on Jun 13, 2014 20:06:28 GMT -5
I don’t know about you guys but the CBI was just frosting on the cake for me. I was satisfied with regular season. We were competitive, for the most part protected the home court and did this with one of the youngest teams in the country. We lose no one off last year’s team…let me repeat that we lose no one, Cole doesn’t have to live up to the “hype” he is not like Paige or Brandwijk—unproven at D1 level. Cole is a proven D1 double digit scorer. He went through practice last year knows Jimmy and the team. All we need out of Cole is to be “solid” .. not too much to ask of proven D1 scorer going into his 3rd season As for expectations and question marks- I too expect the top of the MAAC to be solid, I will add Siena has by far fewer question marks than any team in conference- We know Siena will be very good next year—the only question with Siena is top 3 good or best in MAAC good Considering how young Siena will be again next year you know what the rest of the MAAC is hoping for—MAAC fans are for the most part shitting their pants over Siena - considering Siena will have meat of the team on floor the next 3 years easy to see their concern- if the MAAC doesn’t “get” Siena next year their chances of taking down the Saints don’t get better the next two See, I do think we need someone to really step up and be that "go-to" guy that all MAAC Champs have. I like that we have a group of 4 or 5 guys that I feel could become that guy. A group of good players is always nice, but the great teams usually have someone special that stands out when a team needs it. To win the tournament you're probably right we need someone to take the last shot in a close game and lead the team. Wright and Long each could do it but still will only be sophomores. Cole is a newcomer. My guess is Poole or Bisping is that guy for next season. In the regular season the sum will be greater than the parts. We'll win a lot of games by just wearing teams down and come at them in waves. I have high expectations - I make no apologizes about it. Like Tony said Siena will be good the question is how good? It's only mid June but right now I'm thinking/expecting 14-6 in the MAAC and 6-3 in the OOC schedule. A 20-9 type of season going into the MAAC tournament is realistic. If we get a few questions answered correctly we could improve on those marks. Remember it just wasn't the CBI championship that has expectations high...the team got better as the season went on. The four game winning streak before losing to Canisius in the MAAC quarterfinals is when the team really hit their stride. Heck even when we were 11-16 we knew we were close just were one player short and lacked the experience.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2014 20:13:07 GMT -5
that chart is worthless-- it has White playing PF 3.5% of the time Haha, that's the one item I changed myself. It really had him as a SF. He often came in for Long in the CBI so that it looked funny to me having Poole as the PF and not White.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2014 20:15:52 GMT -5
Agree Wright has something special about him and in my opinion the one player that cant be replaced if injured, but a "go to guy" has to be able to score important baskets and carry the team at the end of games, and in a perfect world be able to score both inside and the perimeter. If Wright can develop his outside shot maybe he can develop into that player. Tough for a 6'0'' PG to be the end of game go to guy without being able to keep the defense honest. That is what made Baron the MAAC POY, the ability to shoot and take over games with both shooting and driving to the basket. Not sure that player currently exists on the roster
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2014 20:20:49 GMT -5
This should be great board fodder. I don't know how much others visit KenPom.com and see this but he does an algorithm to determine most used lineups based on PT and stats and whatever. This is what he came up with. And I find it extremely funny. Most frequent lineups over the past 5 games: PG-----------------------SG-------------SF---------------PF---------------------C-------------Pct Marquis Wright---Ryan Oliver---Rob Poole----Lavon Long---------Brett Bisping----17.8% Marquis Wright---Ryan Oliver---Rob Poole----Javion Ogunyemi--Brett Bisping----12.3% Marquis Wright---Rob Poole-----Lavon Long--Brett Bisping-------Imoh Silas--------6.5% Evan Hymes------Ryan Oliver---Rob Poole-----Lavon Long--------Brett Bisping-----4.1% Marquis Wright---Evan Hymes--Rob Poole-----Lavon Long-------Brett Bisping------4.1% Marquis Wright---Evan Hymes--Ryan Oliver---Lavon Long-------Brett Bisping-------3.9% Marquis Wright---Ryan Oliver---Rob Poole-----Lavon Long-------Javion Ogunyemi--3.5% Marquis Wright---Evan Hymes--Rob Poole-----Maurice White----Javion Ogunyemi --3.5% Marquis Wright---Ryan Oliver--Rob Poole------Lavon Long-------Imoh Silas-----------3.5% Marquis Wright---Evan Hymes--Rob Poole-----Lavon Long-------Javion Ogunyemi---3.1% UNKNOWN 7.5% How do they know who is playing what position while the game is going on? Poole played some 4 and White played some 2 for example. You have to be the coach or real familiar with the system to know those things. Players change positions without making a substitution during the game ie. Wright played the 2 with Hymes at the point and had a play run for him. This team is more versatile than this list indicates. Last example Lavon played the 5 some with Bisping in with him playing the 4... I know that because I know the system and watched the game. Patsos uses his pieces based on the matchup. Sir Kenneth has a whole writeup explaining how he came up with this. I'm just posting it here because of the usual argument. kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/entry/most_frequent_lineupsIn the CBI, Oliver ran the point when Hymes was in for Wright so that's one that is a little off. Also, I'm not sure JO ever didn't play as a center. Still, I don't think it's that far off. The starting lineup with Lavon at the SF was only in effect for a few mins at the beginning of each half. Then it was a 4 guard lineup for the rest. At the end of the year the best lineup was obviously the first one and that's the one they used the most. And it's also the one that they started the last game with.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Jun 13, 2014 21:15:31 GMT -5
The best lineup is the starting 5 like every other DI team..then you work from there and that depends on the matchup each game.
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