NCAA Genorosity

[hankla]

Bleacher Report today has an article about Josh Smith who transferred from UCLA to Georgetown in the middle of last season being awarded immediate eligibility for this semester. Additionally, despite having played games in three seasons at UCLA including six before leaving last season he has two full seasons of eligibility. He was awarded something called a SEASON OF COMPETITION WAIVER. He doesn't even have to have a sick grandma.. Georgetown Law produces some great lawyers .

[IndianSaint]

The NCAA must have it in for Siena. It seems whenever we apply for waivers we get turned down.

I don't have the specifics, just the stories people posted about, but the NCAA doesn't apply it's waiver granting logic equally.

[SaintMisbehavin]

I saw a writer jokingly assume that Josh Smith must have declared his weight as a hardship, and thus was granted a waiver.

(For those unaware of Smith, he's a big boy, and is apparently down about 40 lbs for GTown this year. Crafts services at UCLA must have been primo. It's LA so I assume they have CS instead of dining halls).

[SIENA1971]

m.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/ncaa-clears-josh-smith-to-play-at-start-of-season-for-georgetown/2013/10/23/3004f2e4-3c3c-11e3-b6a9-da62c264f40e_story.html

[Deleted]

Oct 24, 2013 15:36:00 GMT -5 IndianSaint said:

The NCAA must have it in for Siena. It seems whenever we apply for waivers we get turned down.

I don't have the specifics, just the stories people posted about, but the NCAA doesn't apply it's waiver granting logic equally.

The NCAA doesn't apply the rules uniformly, but I can't see how anyone thinks they "have it in for" Siena. When did Siena have a case that was really deserving and denied? Josh Smith at least moved 3,000 miles closer to home and kind of after the fact, UCLA had a coaching change.

[IndianSaint]

Oct 25, 2013 5:20:29 GMT -5 @upstate73 said:

Oct 24, 2013 15:36:00 GMT -5 IndianSaint said:

The NCAA must have it in for Siena. It seems whenever we apply for waivers we get turned down.

I don't have the specifics, just the stories people posted about, but the NCAA doesn't apply it's waiver granting logic equally.

The NCAA doesn't apply the rules uniformly, but I can't see how anyone thinks they "have it in for" Siena. When did Siena have a case that was really deserving and denied? Josh Smith at least moved 3,000 miles closer to home and kind of after the fact, UCLA had a coaching change.

It seems that every waiver Siena has requested was turned down. When that happens posters from this site mention similar cases with other higher level programs getting their waivers granted.

Silas & Gomis apparently had similar or comparable cases/waivers to others (I think I heard some post about Kentucky) and the other schools waivers were granted.

If Cole's isn't granted, it'll again show how others used the same waiver reasons and theirs were granted. So yes bein a Siena fan, I get annoyed when this occurs.

I say get ride of All waivers and make everyone sit out the yr - no exceptions.

[SaintMisbehavin]

Oct 25, 2013 9:18:08 GMT -5 IndianSaint said:

Oct 25, 2013 5:20:29 GMT -5 @upstate73 said:

The NCAA doesn't apply the rules uniformly, but I can't see how anyone thinks they "have it in for" Siena. When did Siena have a case that was really deserving and denied? Josh Smith at least moved 3,000 miles closer to home and kind of after the fact, UCLA had a coaching change.

It seems that every waiver Siena has requested was turned down. When that happens posters from this site mention similar cases with other higher level programs getting their waivers granted.

Silas & Gomis apparently had similar or comparable cases/waivers to others (I think I heard some post about Kentucky) and the other schools waivers were granted.

If Cole's isn't granted, it'll again show how others used the same waiver reasons and theirs were granted. So yes bein a Siena fan, I get annoyed when this occurs.

I say get ride of All waivers and make everyone sit out the yr - no exceptions.

While the Gomis/Silas situation/loss of eligibility was somewhat of a disappointment, that was a much more isolated incident than the typical "hardship waiver" which gives players immediate eligibility, typically to be closer to an ailing relative.

Siena's lack of success in that department largely stems from not having geographic proximity to the transferring players' home. Schools closer to major metropolitan areas (read: Most of the rest of the MAAC) have an advantage in this situation.

Jimmy has already begun recruiting players in the Capital Region. While many have brought up the fact that, at the moment, Siena has no 2014 scholarships to offer, I assure you Mr. Patsos understands the value of establishing these relationships in the event that A. a scholarship opens up, or B. A player is unhappy with the school they chose and are interested in transferring. To take advantage of hardship waiver possibilities, you must at least target transfers that would even have an opportunity to have one granted.

While I'm unsure of the circumstances surrounding Patrick Cole's waiver request, I find it hard to believe that they would be convinced that transferring to a school farther from their home than their original college would warrant a waiver. I don't think this is the NCAA unfairly targeting Siena; it's simply an instance of other schools exploiting a loophole that had honest intent but is now much too generous.

Personally, I'm of the thought that only medical hardship waivers should be granted. If you are truly transferring to be closer to an ailing family member, then shouldn't that person be your priority over playing basketball? You don't lose a year of eligibility, you simply have to wait a year to play. It would help end the charade of the hardship waiver and at least create more of a level, less arbitrary decision making process.

[Deleted]

Oct 25, 2013 9:18:08 GMT -5 IndianSaint said:

Oct 25, 2013 5:20:29 GMT -5 @upstate73 said:

The NCAA doesn't apply the rules uniformly, but I can't see how anyone thinks they "have it in for" Siena. When did Siena have a case that was really deserving and denied? Josh Smith at least moved 3,000 miles closer to home and kind of after the fact, UCLA had a coaching change.

It seems that every waiver Siena has requested was turned down. When that happens posters from this site mention similar cases with other higher level programs getting their waivers granted.

Silas & Gomis apparently had similar or comparable cases/waivers to others (I think I heard some post about Kentucky) and the other schools waivers were granted.

If Cole's isn't granted, it'll again show how others used the same waiver reasons and theirs were granted. So yes bein a Siena fan, I get annoyed when this occurs.

I say get ride of All waivers and make everyone sit out the yr - no exceptions.

Can you even name a reason for Coles waiver? I've never seen one posted. He's not closer to home (actually posted that with travel schedules, he's further). No coaching change, no post season ban. None of the normal NCAA waiver reasons. Silas and Gomis actually WON their appeals, which you seem to forget. They originally lost much more than 1 year of eligibility.

[IndianSaint]

I don't know the waiver reason, only what people here have speculated. I also don't care what the reason is. The player and School can only use the reason(s) they believe Cole qualifies for, otherwise it's a waste of time.

Silas & Gomis only rec'd positive results one one of the waiver requests and not the one that would have granted them immediate playing time (no sitting out a year). That is the exact reason that others said was approved for other programs with similar foreign players.

It won't matter what you say to convince me that Siena gets screwed when it comes to NCAA waivers being granted.

[SaintMisbehavin]

Oct 25, 2013 12:19:09 GMT -5 IndianSaint said:

It won't matter what you say to convince me that Siena gets screwed when it comes to NCAA waivers being granted.

Siena College, teaching objectivity since 1937

[IndianSaint]

Oct 25, 2013 12:26:18 GMT -5 SaintMisbehavin said:

Oct 25, 2013 12:19:09 GMT -5 IndianSaint said:

It won't matter what you say to convince me that Siena gets screwed when it comes to NCAA waivers being granted.

Siena College, teaching objectivity since 1937

I wouldn't blame the school on this one or try and lump other Siena grads with your statement simply because I'm stubborn or an idiot when it comes to the subject of NCAA waivers.

I bet two different schools could submit identical waivers & the NCAA would grant one & deny the other and there'd be people trying to defend those decisions.

[Deleted]

Oct 25, 2013 11:44:25 GMT -5 @upstate73 said:

Oct 25, 2013 9:18:08 GMT -5 IndianSaint said:

It seems that every waiver Siena has requested was turned down. When that happens posters from this site mention similar cases with other higher level programs getting their waivers granted.

Silas & Gomis apparently had similar or comparable cases/waivers to others (I think I heard some post about Kentucky) and the other schools waivers were granted.

If Cole's isn't granted, it'll again show how others used the same waiver reasons and theirs were granted. So yes bein a Siena fan, I get annoyed when this occurs.

I say get ride of All waivers and make everyone sit out the yr - no exceptions.

Can you even name a reason for Coles waiver? I've never seen one posted. He's not closer to home (actually posted that with travel schedules, he's further). No coaching change, no post season ban. None of the normal NCAA waiver reasons. Silas and Gomis actually WON their appeals, which you seem to forget. They originally lost much more than 1 year of eligibility.

You likely won't see a reason posted - quite frankly, the reason is personal related to the family and neither Siena nor the NCAA has any requirement to post that information. It is between Patrick/Siena and the NCAA - we are not players in that arena. If it is granted and Patrick chooses to disclose the basis, that's his call and his alone.

[Deleted]

As to the view that Siena seems to get the short end of each waiver stick, I personally believe that the big boys carry more clout and the old adage "the squeaky wheel gets greased" comes into play. I'm not sure Siena would get as "direct" in discussions as say an Iona might. I also think the NCAA may feel they have to balance their decisions and veto some waiver requests to prevent the view that they give blanket approvals. So if all things were equal, which they are not, they might turn down a Siena and ok a Kentucky. JMO.

[IndianSaint]

Even Jimmy agrees with me (NCAA is not consistent & shouldn't have two sets of rules - granting some waivers & not others; everyone should sit out the year when transferring).

www.nycbuckets.com/2013/10/sienas-pat-cole-waiver-status-hymes-injury-update/

I simply add the woe is me since it seems Like players transferring into Siena almost always are denied the ability to play at once.

[th24]

The politics is simple here...the NCAA wants to BIG EAST to become a POWER HOUSE. So ..like in Washington..the big shots are going to get what they want. Welcome to USA/NCAA in 2013!