Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Jun 3, 2020 16:09:26 GMT -5
Carm did a great job this season winning the MAAC in his first season as a head coach. But I'd temper any declaration of easy early success. While the early returns suggest that he has what it takes to be a success, there are some caveats here. He did it with mostly with other people's players. I remind you that Mitch Bonaguro and Steve Masiello each have two MAAC titles earned with their predecessor's players. Once their predecessors' players departed, their true ability became apparent and both tanked. Carm still has some work to do to establish he can win with his own players going forward in a post-Burns, Camper and Pickett era. Guys like Harris and Carpenter appear to suggest he's got that covered too. We'll see what his first full recruiting class as a head coach looks like when the incoming frosh suit up. That will be very telling. not to rain on your take (or parade), but you do realize that ALL the players on the roster except Camper & Friday were either recruited by Carm or that Carm was on the staff with Jamion as the head coach.............so I am not sure the total validity of your point here....................and this is not to say that Carm cannot improve but just that without question he is already winning now with HIS players..............just sayin' Thank you for your comment. Carey was recruited by JC at Mount St Mary's and chose to follow him to Siena long before Carm was involved. It's highly unlikely he would have stayed if he didn't have to sit out again. You have to wonder if his mid-season slump was due to not being completely happy or comfortable with his new situation. He's a JC recruit through and through. That makes 4 of the 5 starters being recruited under a different head coach. Make no mistake: while assistants may make initial contact, players come for the head coach - and the style that coach promises. That's why we lost Seymour, Walker, and now Sutherland. All the guys recruited last season are JC recruits - they originally came to play for him, not Carm. We are fortunate most stayed to instead play for Carm. The only player recruited last season you can definitively say that if not for Carm they wouldn't be at Siena is Ratliff because Carm turned JC on to him (not exactly a player to exemplify as a ringing endorsement for recruiting acumen I might add). The only Carm guys on the roster are Hein, King, and Harris. Not a terrible haul for a last minute recruiting effort after a coaching change, but not what would be an acceptable class at Siena for a full year recruiting effort. This is why I say the 2020 class will tell us more.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2020 16:44:05 GMT -5
Much of what you say SF is true but I feel you are seriously discounting the effort put forth by Carm to retain as many players as he could. True, assistants do the ground work (not a menial task by any means), staying in contact with potential recruits, attending as many games as schedules permit, and, most importantly, keeping the Head Coach fully and accurately informed re the progress/status of each recruit.
You correctly state that kids come because of the HC.
What I think you are not taking into account is the fact that Carm was not previously a head coach so his bona fides and vision had to be clearly laid out and sold to the returning players as well as recruits that could still be salvaged. That is a much harder job than your post implies/conveys.
To say Carm has done an excellent job is a gross understatement. He very quickly assessed a changed situation with no prior warning, held them together, convinced them that continuing their athletic and educational careers at Siena was the smart thing to do, and proved everything he told them. He and his staff coached an NCAA picture perfect season - continued growth, coaching discipline, team buy in, solid on the home court, clean program, academic success and a very, very strong finish to the regular season followed by a continuation into the shortened MAAC Tournament.
No one, I repeat, no one could have anticipated what he did once handed the reins. True, he lost some players but did he ever turn what he was left with into a winning TEAM - something we hadn't seen in some time.
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Post by greengold4ever on Jun 3, 2020 17:56:55 GMT -5
not to rain on your take (or parade), but you do realize that ALL the players on the roster except Camper & Friday were either recruited by Carm or that Carm was on the staff with Jamion as the head coach.............so I am not sure the total validity of your point here....................and this is not to say that Carm cannot improve but just that without question he is already winning now with HIS players..............just sayin' Thank you for your comment. Carey was recruited by JC at Mount St Mary's and chose to follow him to Siena long before Carm was involved. It's highly unlikely he would have stayed if he didn't have to sit out again. You have to wonder if his mid-season slump was due to not being completely happy or comfortable with his new situation. He's a JC recruit through and through. That makes 4 of the 5 starters being recruited under a different head coach. Make no mistake: while assistants may make initial contact, players come for the head coach - and the style that coach promises. That's why we lost Seymour, Walker, and now Sutherland. All the guys recruited last season are JC recruits - they originally came to play for him, not Carm. We are fortunate most stayed to instead play for Carm. The only player recruited last season you can definitively say that if not for Carm they wouldn't be at Siena is Ratliff because Carm turned JC on to him (not exactly a player to exemplify as a ringing endorsement for recruiting acumen I might add). The only Carm guys on the roster are Hein, King, and Harris. Not a terrible haul for a last minute recruiting effort after a coaching change, but not what would be an acceptable class at Siena for a full year recruiting effort. This is why I say the 2020 class will tell us more. sure, coaches don't get enough credit when they win, and they get too much blame when they lose.................I think when you can see through the trees, we don't have to thrust any further unreal expectations on Carm, he gets it and in fact he welcomes it............that first season by him, was pretty remarkable..............what he did to mold the team in the last half of the season was tremendous (whether it be detailed they were his guys or not, because in the end they all played for him when it mattered most) and again that is not to say he is another John Wooden, he is very humble and so willing to learn, and best of all he truly cherishes his position as coach of the program, it's been a very long time since we have had someone like that steering the ship...........nobody truly knows what lies ahead, but the program is in a very good position moving forward, and while we still have question marks, they aren't so overwhelming that they cause any one of us to lose sleep over (except MTS because he wants a national championship, lol)............criticism is fine, if constructive, we have other things in life that are truly areas of concern with what's going on in the world, but leadership of the Siena basketball program is not one of them, imho...............
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skipc
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Post by skipc on Jun 3, 2020 18:05:24 GMT -5
Much of what you say SF is true but I feel you are seriously discounting the effort put forth by Carm to retain as many players as he could. True, assistants do the ground work (not a menial task by any means), staying in contact with potential recruits, attending as many games as schedules permit, and, most importantly, keeping the Head Coach fully and accurately informed re the progress/status of each recruit. You correctly state that kids come because of the HC. What I think you are not taking into account is the fact that Carm was not previously a head coach so his bona fides and vision had to be clearly laid out and sold to the returning players as well as recruits that could still be salvaged. That is a much harder job than your post implies/conveys. To say Carm has done an excellent job is a gross understatement. He very quickly assessed a changed situation with no prior warning, held them together, convinced them that continuing their athletic and educational careers at Siena was the smart thing to do, and proved everything he told them. He and his staff coached an NCAA picture perfect season - continued growth, coaching discipline, team buy in, solid on the home court, clean program, academic success and a very, very strong finish to the regular season followed by a continuation into the shortened MAAC Tournament. No one, I repeat, no one could have anticipated what he did once handed the reins. True, he lost some players but did he ever turn what he was left with into a winning TEAM - something we hadn't seen in some time. Great coaches have their team playing their best ball at the end of the season( see 10 game winning streak including thumping Monmouth to seal the MAAC title).
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musicman
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Post by musicman on Jun 3, 2020 18:06:17 GMT -5
Much of what you say SF is true but I feel you are seriously discounting the effort put forth by Carm to retain as many players as he could. True, assistants do the ground work (not a menial task by any means), staying in contact with potential recruits, attending as many games as schedules permit, and, most importantly, keeping the Head Coach fully and accurately informed re the progress/status of each recruit. You correctly state that kids come because of the HC. What I think you are not taking into account is the fact that Carm was not previously a head coach so his bona fides and vision had to be clearly laid out and sold to the returning players as well as recruits that could still be salvaged. That is a much harder job than your post implies/conveys. To say Carm has done an excellent job is a gross understatement. He very quickly assessed a changed situation with no prior warning, held them together, convinced them that continuing their athletic and educational careers at Siena was the smart thing to do, and proved everything he told them. He and his staff coached an NCAA picture perfect season - continued growth, coaching discipline, team buy in, solid on the home court, clean program, academic success and a very, very strong finish to the regular season followed by a continuation into the shortened MAAC Tournament. No one, I repeat, no one could have anticipated what he did once handed the reins. True, he lost some players but did he ever turn what he was left with into a winning TEAM - something we hadn't seen in some time. Great post! I don't think anyone would dispute any of your points made. All on the money. Looking back now at when JC left, it's amazing what a great job Carm did making a perfect transition. It's still unbelievable how well everything worked out. Not luck but hard work, the right coaching staff to get the job done and a great bunch of young men. It's hard to believe where we were only a year or so ago. In Carm we trust!
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