Siena 18-19 vs 19-20 after 7 games...

[MTS]

Both under a first year head coach at Siena

18-19: 2-5, Point Differential -35, Home 0-2, Road 1-2, Neutral 1-1 vs. Power-6 0-1

19-20: 2-5, Point Differential -17, Home 2-0, Road 0-5, Neutral 0-0 vs. Power-6 0-1

It's a pretty similar start. Now last year we basically had no expectations and this year we have much higher expectations obviously. But both with a new head coach (in this case a first time HC) and a bunch of new players. There was really no pressure last year. This year there is and I don't think we've handled it well so far.

This team certainly has more talent on paper than last year but it's still pretty young/inexperienced. Burns and Camper are the only upperclassmen who play major minutes and even they have not logged major minutes in their careers.

We can turn it around but just finishing 17-16 and going to the MAAC semifinals again isn't going to satisfy many Siena fans and it shouldn't.

As Carm says Siena strives to win MAAC championships not be mediocre. It is concerning that the last couple of games we've gotten worse from the first five. Hopefully the staff can get the team to execute the game plan better. Going home will help but eventually you have to find ways to win on the road too.

[billmurray]

Well 17 to 18 wins, top tier of MAAC and challenging for MAAC Tourney championship in March were my expectations going into the year. If that plays out I can’t says I’d be dissatisfied. Certainly I would like the team to exceed my expectations, but if they don’t fall short of them it is hard to honestly be “disappointed”.

[OneIndian]

Status quo here it’s always the “sky is falling” mentality after a loss or losses. Been here long enough to know the mood changes like the weather in the northeast.

Four home games coming. Need to get this straightened out before an important trip to Rider on the 5th. Team is sideways, lacking identity, swag, chemistry and that killer instinct. Offense is totally off kilter, defense lacking toughness/intensity. There’s been regression v. growth, Carm/staff/team have a lot of work to do.

[saintsfan12]

My expectations were that a young team always seems to lose close/road games. I think we'll be fine

[greengold4ever]

but something is going on, this team does not look the same as they did in their 2 wins................and not just talking about playing well and because they won those...............the offense in those winning games showed alot of ball movement, and players were cutting/screening alot.............now, what we are seeing is a return to last yr, when Jalen dribbled the ball and tried to make a play while others are just observers...........that was needed with the talent we had last yr, but certainly that is not to our benefit this yr.............just witness how many times we are waiting for Pickett to get doubled teamed and we aren't reacting fast enough, that ball should be out of his hands before that double team develops (again this isn't last yr).........the aggressive man to man D has been less than stellar in our losses unlike during our wins where we were very aggressive and at least stopping dribble drive penetration with others hedging..................is it a chemistry issue within the group that has developed??...........only those in the lockerroom know for sure, but this isn't the same team that we saw early on this yr...............up to Carm to get things moving in a forward direction, and fast.........................

[$cott]

Only "positive" of this all is now it really is just about 3 days in March. No stressing over the non-conference wins that could help with seeding come NCAA time. We are locked into at best a 15 seed and could even be PIG bound with the loss to Cal Poly. Has taken a lot of the excitement off the Bucknell and Holy Cross games. Once MAAC play begins though things get super important. Number 1 goal is to get top 2 in the league and get that extra day of rest in the MAAC Tourney. If that goal becomes unattainable you need to fallback to goal 2 of finishing in the top 5 and avoiding a play in game. Fail to reach either of those goals and the season is a super disappointment.

[musicman]

Dec 9, 2019 12:18:44 GMT -5 greengold4ever said:

but something is going on, this team does not look the same as they did in their 2 wins................and not just talking about playing well and because they won those...............the offense in those winning games showed alot of ball movement, and players were cutting/screening alot.............now, what we are seeing is a return to last yr, when Jalen dribbled the ball and tried to make a play while others are just observers...........that was needed with the talent we had last yr, but certainly that is not to our benefit this yr.............just witness how many times we are waiting for Pickett to get doubled teamed and we aren't reacting fast enough, that ball should be out of his hands before that double team develops (again this isn't last yr).........the aggressive man to man D has been less than stellar in our losses unlike during our wins where we were very aggressive and at least stopping dribble drive penetration with others hedging..................is it a chemistry issue within the group that has developed??...........only those in the lockerroom know for sure, but this isn't the same team that we saw early on this yr...............up to Carm to get things moving in a forward direction, and fast.........................

Some good observations today! There seemed to be an air of confidence the first few games. (maybe 3 or 4 even) Our shooters, particularly individuals like Carey and JP, were in a relaxed groove or flow. Everyone now seems to be thinking too hard. The first couple games when the outside shots weren't dropping really seemed to get in players' heads. And we know it doesn't take much to start things going side-ways. The loss of ball movement is a little more baffling. That I don't get. They have a nice stretch here now to get in the gym and get their mojo working. They do have a pretty good list of things to work on or to improve on obviously. There has been discussion about Carm's lack of emotion during a game. It does seem like he believes in the "Brad Stevens School of Coaching" philosophy. In general, I think that is a positive but sometimes you have to put a little fire under a kid's or a team's ass. They certainly aren't professionals. As a sidebar, I think that any player shooting under 30% from three point range should have to shoot a 100 shots at the end of each practice. That's just me. Go Saints!!

[legacy]

Dec 9, 2019 9:03:28 GMT -5 OneIndian said:

Status quo here it’s always the “sky is falling” mentality after a loss or losses. Been here long enough to know the mood changes like the weather in the northeast.

Four home games coming. Need to get this straightened out before an important trip to Rider on the 5th. Team is sideways, lacking identity, swag, chemistry and that killer instinct. Offense is totally off kilter, defense lacking toughness/intensity. There’s been regression v. growth, Carm/staff/team have a lot of work to do.

FWIW-your post does read like the sky is falling- and with the number of issues you've described, our Saints have a rather large  task in front of them. It's not only "a loss" that's fueled unrest, but a legacy of loss in our past and currently several more to continue that losing streak-one to a team that hadn't beaten a D1 team yet.  despite the "attack finish" mantra, they sorely lack either of those characteristics  yet. again FWIW, I am the eternal optimist and will continue to root for our team and new coach but to be honest- sometimes it feels like we are becoming the NYGiants....

[MTS]

Dec 9, 2019 13:20:13 GMT -5 $cott said:

Only "positive" of this all is now it really is just about 3 days in March. No stressing over the non-conference wins that could help with seeding come NCAA time. We are locked into at best a 15 seed and could even be PIG bound with the loss to Cal Poly. Has taken a lot of the excitement off the Bucknell and Holy Cross games. Once MAAC play begins though things get super important. Number 1 goal is to get top 2 in the league and get that extra day of rest in the MAAC Tourney. If that goal becomes unattainable you need to fallback to goal 2 of finishing in the top 5 and avoiding a play in game. Fail to reach either of those goals and the season is a super disappointment.

Not three games in March yet— it is 20 MAAC games...as you said very important to get a top 2 seed to give you the best possible way to win the MAAC championship. Plus a regular season title gives up the automatic NIT bid if needed.

I’m not worried about seeds this year. We’ve haven’t been to a meaningful postseason tournament in a decade. I’d rather go as a 15 seed at 19-13 then to go 23-9 and go to a C tournament.

Now everyone wants to do what we did from 2007-10 but that’s not realistic this year. Year two from the rebuild with a coaching change thrown in. The roster still is not where it needs to be to be a top mid-major nationally yet.

However that’s not excusing a terrible loss at Cal Poly either just that we’re not fully back yet but we can contend for the title if adjustments/corrections are made. We’ve show that potentially this year but not consistency yet.

Every game matters and momentum is big we need to beat Bucknell and Holy Cross big time!

[OneIndian]

Dec 9, 2019 14:24:03 GMT -5 legacy said:

Dec 9, 2019 9:03:28 GMT -5 OneIndian said:

Status quo here it’s always the “sky is falling” mentality after a loss or losses. Been here long enough to know the mood changes like the weather in the northeast.

Four home games coming. Need to get this straightened out before an important trip to Rider on the 5th. Team is sideways, lacking identity, swag, chemistry and that killer instinct. Offense is totally off kilter, defense lacking toughness/intensity. There’s been regression v. growth, Carm/staff/team have a lot of work to do.

FWIW-your post does read like the sky is falling- and with the number of issues you've described, our Saints have a rather large  task in front of them. It's not only "a loss" that's fueled unrest, but a legacy of loss in our past and currently several more to continue that losing streak-one to a team that hadn't beaten a D1 team yet.  despite the "attack finish" mantra, they sorely lack either of those characteristics  yet. again FWIW, I am the eternal optimist and will continue to root for our team and new coach but to be honest- sometimes it feels like we are becoming the NYGiants....

Not even close. Huge difference from being down on coach, players & program vs. observing where the team is currently struggling.

We were 2 - 5 at this point last year and had a pretty decent year. I’m not writing anything off.

All I said was that we’ve seen regression, a lack of intensity and a struggling offense / defense over the past 4 games. Program has work to do to rebound. End of story!

[greengold4ever]

and in as much as we certainly are going to "concentrate" on the MAAC schedule now (which includes the 3 or more days in March).............this team must find a way to win some games on the road............great that we started off protecting our home court and you have to believe that will continue, but without finding a way to split at least half of our games on the road, we have no shot at competing for a title, at least not this season..................

[mike60]

I compared Siena's stats from last year with the 1st 6 games this year. Picket is marginally ahead.Burns is 1
1/2 pts behind Fisher,Carey is 5pts ahead of sloan, Camper is 3 1/2 pts ahead of Degnan and way ahead of every one in rebounds, put Harris and King together and they are as good as any bench player from last year. Yes, the Cal game was a stinker. I wouldn't call the Yale loss in triple overtime a regression whatsoever. It was a coaching loss for not an immediate foul on the inbound before the deep 3 pointer. Our bench overall is no worse than last years to this point in time, if I was a betting man I think it has a better upside. I think too many of us read the reports on incoming freshmen and think they will all be Pickets. You seem to forget all the freshmen who started out slowly and were playing well by midyear. I always think of Willy Mays who was sent back to the minors for a time during his first year in the majors and he wasn't 18 years old. What did Rossiter look like the first half of his Freshman year. Chill!

[mike60]

That's another thing that gets me. Some of you talk about Carms lack of emotion, but railed against Patsos over emotional approach. You seem to have a very specific idea of how someone should do this that or another thing. I think John Wooden did pretty well in a subdued manner.

[musicman]

Dec 10, 2019 0:10:47 GMT -5 mike60 said:

That's another thing that gets me. Some of you talk about Carms lack of emotion, but railed against Patsos over emotional approach. You seem to have a very specific idea of how someone should do this that or another thing. I think John Wooden did pretty well in a subdued manner.

I have a feeling Carm has that calm facade on the sidelines while play is going on but elevates his energy level at times during his time outs. He's definitely a chilled individual but something tells me the energy level and dynamics will change substantially if people aren't getting the message. I like everything about him but he obviously will be making mistakes during his first year as a head coach. He's a smart guy, he will learn and adapt. We have a good man.

[$cott]

Dec 10, 2019 0:10:47 GMT -5 mike60 said:

That's another thing that gets me. Some of you talk about Carms lack of emotion, but railed against Patsos over emotional approach. You seem to have a very specific idea of how someone should do this that or another thing. I think John Wooden did pretty well in a subdued manner.

They want the bipolar sideline demeanor of Fran