Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Dislikes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 11:15:11 GMT -5
The fifth starter needs to be the guy that fits best with the rest of the starters, not the 5th best player on the team. Jimmy was one of the few guys we trusted to press early last year for JC-- he's a good athlete and can hit outside shots. The ideal version of Gary Harris is the perfect 5th piece, but we may not get the ideal version of Gary Harris in game one. If Gary Harris isn't yet a polished offensive player and shooter, you may not want him out there with Camper as much. I know people say Camper is shooting better, but you know what, we heard that last year too. King might be needed to help handle the ball while Pickett is on the bench....so now you're talking either Ratliff or Sutherland potentially sneaking in to be another shooting presence among the starters. With all that said, a Pickett, Carey, Harris, Camper, Burns lineup could be great defensively and you may really want to see that. If Pickett and Carey can just create their own shots anyway, it not be that bad. Then you'd leave the 3 pt shooters to play on the lazier creating 2nd team without Pickett/Carey ...with King, Ratliff, Sutherland, Friday, and maybe Hein etc. They maybe wouldn't have to get into the lane as much and could just rely on jumpers...so Pickett and Carey could rest. Different ways you can go depending on how guys are playing.
|
|
Sienafan
Team Captain
Posts: 2,498
Dislikes:
|
Post by Sienafan on Oct 17, 2019 11:22:23 GMT -5
Ratliff didn't strike me as a potential future starter material from what we saw of him. I think he can evolve into a reliable role player, but I'm not expecting much more than that. He bills himself as primarily being a shooter - yet he shot 30% from 3, so yeah. I'm not concerned about shooting depth. That's not going to be our game anyway, so we won't live and die by the 3 like the Iona's of the world. Carm learned under Fran and that's close to how he'll play. Like those teams this one will get points by driving to basket and either scoring or getting fouled. They'll take the 3 when it's there, but it won't be option 1. If the defenses zone us up, then you bring in King and let him fire away. Ratliff is 6-8 and quick enough to defend multiple positions. He has some defensive upside. His offensive pull up game reminded me a little of Rob Poole at times. Poole shot like 27% from 3 his first year for Siena. If his threes start falling and he's mixing in a few more drives, you never know what he could do. And you don't know yet what King or Harris will do either. How do you know how well King will shoot? Ratliff may fizzle out like Heurter or he may take a leap forward. We simply don't know. Yes Poole shot 27% as a frosh and turned it around the following season at 40%. If Ratliff does that, then good for him. He doesn't strike me as a dribble driver, so he needs a consistently reliable jumper to be useful. I have by no means given up on Ratliff, I'm just saying that based on what we've seen so far he doesn't jump out at you as a future star. Meanwhile Harris is pretty electrifying at first sight and had an amazing summer AAU season. So I see more immediate upside there. As for King, I don't know how well he will shoot this season, but we have an indication of how well he's capable of shooting. We have game footage showing it, and his teammates to a man have said he's the best on the team.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Dislikes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 11:36:01 GMT -5
Ratliff is 6-8 and quick enough to defend multiple positions. He has some defensive upside. His offensive pull up game reminded me a little of Rob Poole at times. Poole shot like 27% from 3 his first year for Siena. If his threes start falling and he's mixing in a few more drives, you never know what he could do. And you don't know yet what King or Harris will do either. How do you know how well King will shoot? Ratliff may fizzle out like Heurter or he may take a leap forward. We simply don't know. Yes Poole shot 27% as a frosh and turned it around the following season at 40%. If Ratliff does that, then good for him. He doesn't strike me as a dribble driver, so he needs a consistently reliable jumper to be useful. I have by no means given up on Ratliff, I'm just saying that based on what we've seen so far he doesn't jump out at you as a future star. Meanwhile Harris is pretty electrifying at first sight and had an amazing summer AAU season. So I see more immediate upside there. As for King, I don't know how well he will shoot this season, but we have an indication of how well he's capable of shooting. We have game footage showing it, and his teammates to a man have said he's the best on the team. Ratliff doesn't have to be a 'future star' to play a lot. Harris PT will likely come down to his offense. We need it to be solid to keep him on the floor for his plus D and rebounding potential. It would raise Siena's upside. However, if Ratliff is shooting 35% from three, he's an ok plug and play guy within that lineup. I think he's capable of that. Plus, he could be a better defender in a more uptempo system than he was in a half court one. Again, he's 6-8 and quick for his size. Jimmy shot 20% (5 of 21) from three in November, 41.4% (12 of 29) in December, and was just 0-3 after hurting his finger. One could potentially explain that the slow start was because of nerves and getting acclimated. He really started to get on a roll right before the injury.
|
|
Sienafan
Team Captain
Posts: 2,498
Dislikes:
|
Post by Sienafan on Oct 17, 2019 11:40:40 GMT -5
Yes Poole shot 27% as a frosh and turned it around the following season at 40%. If Ratliff does that, then good for him. He doesn't strike me as a dribble driver, so he needs a consistently reliable jumper to be useful. I have by no means given up on Ratliff, I'm just saying that based on what we've seen so far he doesn't jump out at you as a future star. Meanwhile Harris is pretty electrifying at first sight and had an amazing summer AAU season. So I see more immediate upside there. As for King, I don't know how well he will shoot this season, but we have an indication of how well he's capable of shooting. We have game footage showing it, and his teammates to a man have said he's the best on the team. Ratliff doesn't have to be a 'future star' to play a lot. Harris PT will likely come down to his offense. We need it to be solid to keep him on the floor for his plus D and rebounding potential. It would raise Siena's upside. However, if Ratliff is shooting 35% from three, he's an ok plug and play guy within that lineup. I think he's capable of that. Plus, he could be a better defender in a more uptempo system than he was in a half court one. Again, he's 6-8 and quick for his size. We are in agreement that he doesn't have to be a future star to play a lot. However, you were discussing him as a potential alternative to Harris as a starter. In my opinion, our starting 3 (along with the starting 1 and 2) needs to be either a current star or a future one if we expect to win titles.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Dislikes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 11:42:09 GMT -5
Ratliff doesn't have to be a 'future star' to play a lot. Harris PT will likely come down to his offense. We need it to be solid to keep him on the floor for his plus D and rebounding potential. It would raise Siena's upside. However, if Ratliff is shooting 35% from three, he's an ok plug and play guy within that lineup. I think he's capable of that. Plus, he could be a better defender in a more uptempo system than he was in a half court one. Again, he's 6-8 and quick for his size. We are in agreement that he doesn't have to be a future star to play a lot. However, you were discussing him as a potential alternative to Harris as a starter. In my opinion, our starting 3 (along with the starting 1 and 2) needs to be either a current star or a future one if we expect to win titles. Sometimes being a starter doesn't necessarily mean you're the 5th best player. It's about who plays best with whom and what the goal of the lineup is. Pickett and Carey don't really have a lot of proven spot up shooters to kick out to. If Harris, Camper, and Burns are not making 3's consistently....you'll need to mix it up.
|
|
Sienafan
Team Captain
Posts: 2,498
Dislikes:
|
Post by Sienafan on Oct 17, 2019 11:50:44 GMT -5
We are in agreement that he doesn't have to be a future star to play a lot. However, you were discussing him as a potential alternative to Harris as a starter. In my opinion, our starting 3 (along with the starting 1 and 2) needs to be either a current star or a future one if we expect to win titles. Sometimes being a starter doesn't necessarily mean you're the 5th best player. It's about who plays best with whom and what the goal of the lineup is. Pickett and Carey don't really have a lot of proven spot up shooters to kick out to. If Harris, Camper, and Burns are not making 3's consistently....you'll need to mix it up. Carey and Pickett are both 35-36ish% three point shooters who can create their own shot. They don't need to kick it out. They figure to be the bulk of the team's scoring most games anyway. It remains to be seen if Harris' shooting this summer was a fluke or not, but I wouldn't expect very many jumpers from Camper and Burns if I were you.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Dislikes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 12:00:10 GMT -5
Sometimes being a starter doesn't necessarily mean you're the 5th best player. It's about who plays best with whom and what the goal of the lineup is. Pickett and Carey don't really have a lot of proven spot up shooters to kick out to. If Harris, Camper, and Burns are not making 3's consistently....you'll need to mix it up. Carey and Pickett are both 35-36ish% three point shooters who can create their own shot. They don't need to kick it out. They figure to be the bulk of the team's scoring most games anyway. It remains to be seen if Harris' shooting this summer was a fluke or not, but I wouldn't expect very many jumpers from Camper and Burns if I were you. I’m not expecting them to shoot a lot. That’s my point. Look, you can get away with a 2 shooter lineup with guys like those 2. However, it won’t likely be a high octane offense that way. You need at least 3, maybe 4 out there for that. Now, maybe the D could be so good you don’t need as much offense but we don’t know that yet. The pieces are still moving. There are strengths and weaknesses of each lineup. It depends on what they can get away with.
|
|
|
Post by MTS on Oct 17, 2019 12:15:32 GMT -5
If Pickett is the real deal and not a 1 yr wonder boy where he can be successful in an up tempo Carm defense creating offense type of system where he is not controlling the ball for 25 seconds on the shot clock, and Carey lives up to his hype as making them the best guard tandem in the MAAC, with all the other tools they have around them, I "expect" them to win the MAAC this year. It all starts with how competitive they are when they travel to Xavier. If they are close or can win that game which I think they could they will do much better than expected and if they lose big its reality giving them a big slap in the face letting them know they have to work that much harder, that much smarter if they are going to successful. Its kind of like what the Stanford game was to the Eubiles, Franklin, and Moore freshmen class when Hasbrouck was this years Pickett. Regardless of the outcome that game was a springboard to better things to come. Go Saints! In Ubiles, Franklin, and Moore's freshman year Siena went to Stanford and lost by 20. That is the sort of result you should expect when they visit Xavier this year, line will have Xavier anywhere from 15 to 20 point favorites. It is nothing like the home game against Stanford in their sophomore year where Brook Lopez didn't play. Huge difference getting to play a big school at home without their best player vs going on the road. If people are using the Xavier game as a gauge on the season they are likely to be in for a rude awakening. If Siena can win there they shouldn't lose more than 2 games in the MAAC. They could easily lose there by 20 and still win the MAAC. Depends on how good Xavier is. Remember we beat #20 Stanford (was at home and without the better Lopez) but we still lost 5 games in the MAAC that year and Stanford was a sweet 16 team. If Xavier is truly a Big East contender and top 15 team then I agree a 15-20 point loss doesn't mean we can't win the MAAC and a win would actually put Siena in the at-large discussion if they had a good enough record and needed it and Xavier was a top 15 team. But who knows how good Xavier will be. Remember Monmouth beat UCLA and Georgetown but neither were good. However their wins over Notre Dame and USC were excellent. But first thing is first, American is a sneaky tough game on opening night. Most have them in the top 3-4 of the Patriot league and they have a 6'2 guard Nelson who is really good. Let's win that one first before we focus on Xavier. A true MAAC contender does take care of business in that game at home on November 5.
|
|
Sienafan
Team Captain
Posts: 2,498
Dislikes:
|
Post by Sienafan on Oct 17, 2019 12:44:03 GMT -5
Carey and Pickett are both 35-36ish% three point shooters who can create their own shot. They don't need to kick it out. They figure to be the bulk of the team's scoring most games anyway. It remains to be seen if Harris' shooting this summer was a fluke or not, but I wouldn't expect very many jumpers from Camper and Burns if I were you. I’m not expecting them to shoot a lot. That’s my point. Look, you can get away with a 2 shooter lineup with guys like those 2. However, it won’t likely be a high octane offense that way. You need at least 3, maybe 4 out there for that. Now, maybe the D could be so good you don’t need as much offense but we don’t know that yet. The pieces are still moving. There are strengths and weaknesses of each lineup. It depends on what they can get away with. Good points. The thing is we don't really know what we're going to have for 3 point shooters. We know what Camper, Carey, Pickett, Hein and Burns can do in terms of shooting. We don't know what King, Harris, and Sutherland can do yet. Ratliff, we have a small not so great sample, but we have to see if there's improvement in year 2. That's about it in terms of potential new shooters. So some people in that last group of 4 need to step up to put this whole thing together.
|
|
|
Post by goldsaint17 on Oct 17, 2019 12:48:45 GMT -5
I’m not expecting them to shoot a lot. That’s my point. Look, you can get away with a 2 shooter lineup with guys like those 2. However, it won’t likely be a high octane offense that way. You need at least 3, maybe 4 out there for that. Now, maybe the D could be so good you don’t need as much offense but we don’t know that yet. The pieces are still moving. There are strengths and weaknesses of each lineup. It depends on what they can get away with. Good points. The thing is we don't really know what we're going to have for 3 point shooters. We know what Camper, Carey, Pickett, Hein and Burns can do in terms of shooting. We don't know what King, Harris, and Sutherland can do yet. Ratliff, we have a small not so great sample, but we have to see if there's improvement in year 2. That's about it in terms of potential new shooters. So some people in that last group of 4 need to step up to put this whole thing together. We don't know what Burns is as a shooter.
|
|
Sienafan
Team Captain
Posts: 2,498
Dislikes:
|
Post by Sienafan on Oct 17, 2019 12:51:53 GMT -5
Good points. The thing is we don't really know what we're going to have for 3 point shooters. We know what Camper, Carey, Pickett, Hein and Burns can do in terms of shooting. We don't know what King, Harris, and Sutherland can do yet. Ratliff, we have a small not so great sample, but we have to see if there's improvement in year 2. That's about it in terms of potential new shooters. So some people in that last group of 4 need to step up to put this whole thing together. We don't know what Burns is as a shooter. He's a multi year division 1 player. If he was lightning it up from 3 in practice you would think Mike Brey would have noticed and played him more.
|
|
|
Post by Tony on Oct 17, 2019 13:03:49 GMT -5
Burns has the green light to shoot 3's in Carm's offense. Now I dont think he will be taking contested 3's, but if opposing team doesnt come out to guard him Elijah will shoot. And if MAAC teams send out a lumbering big man to guard Elijah he will blow by him. Burns is going to be a mismatch for most MAAC teams
As I've been saying since last year , this years team will go as far as Burns, Pickett and Carey can take them- ( might add Manny to that group) rest of the guys have to be solid role players
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Dislikes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 13:09:17 GMT -5
I'm gonna guess that Burn's 3 point shooting is similar to that of Ogunyemi's. He can probably make some here and there but over a long sample he's probably around a 30% 3 point shooter...so nothing special.
What I want more from Burns is to rebound, shoot 50%+ from 2 pt range, and get to the FT line a lot. With his FT shooting, the kid could be a PPS monster as long as he's not missing too many jumpers and bunnies.
His career PPS is 1.44 and his true shooting % is 53.7% (low because he has a career 41.2 FG%). Fisher's PPS was 1.17 last year and TS% was 53%.
Burns needs to improve his efficiency to where he's capable of and blow Fisher out of the water. I want him to be more like Ogunyemi was on offense. He'll never be the type of defender JO was but he can outrebound him and score like him.
|
|
$cott
Assistant Coach
Posts: 5,079
Dislikes:
|
Post by $cott on Oct 17, 2019 13:12:18 GMT -5
Burns has the green light to shoot 3's in Carm's offense. Now I dont think he will be taking contested 3's, but if opposing team doesnt come out to guard him Elijah will shoot. And if MAAC teams send out a lumbering big man to guard Elijah he will blow by him. Burns is going to be a mismatch for most MAAC teams As I've been saying since last year , this years team will go as far as Burns, Pickett and Carey can take them- ( might add Manny to that group) rest of the guys have to be solid role players I would put Harris in the "might add" group and say that Manny is our only sure thing as a role player.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Dislikes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 13:30:42 GMT -5
Burns has the green light to shoot 3's in Carm's offense. Now I dont think he will be taking contested 3's, but if opposing team doesnt come out to guard him Elijah will shoot. And if MAAC teams send out a lumbering big man to guard Elijah he will blow by him. Burns is going to be a mismatch for most MAAC teams As I've been saying since last year , this years team will go as far as Burns, Pickett and Carey can take them- ( might add Manny to that group) rest of the guys have to be solid role players On paper, and with disregard to Friday...I don't think Burns is dominant inside. Here's kind of how I see it. Burns vs. Agee & Co.? Edge Iona - Agee more versatile and he has a lot of helpers now...Thiam/Van Eyck/Nikolic etc. Burns vs. Scott/Marshall? Edge Rider- on 2 vs 1..both can score and rebound in complement. Scott can shoot 3's. Burns vs. Marfo and Co? Slight Edge Quinny- Marfo is Best rebounder in the league, can score some inside when given the minutes. Burns vs. Paulicap/Williams - Push - They're better on D, Burns probably more mistake free on offense. Burns vs. Eze/Maidoh/Methnani - Burns slight edge
Burns vs. Traore - Burns slight edge on versatility .Everyone else - Edge Burns and could be significant .I certainly don't really see too many of those guys as 'lumbering'.
|
|