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Post by goldsaint17 on Jun 6, 2019 12:45:54 GMT -5
The stats are very consistent-- 20 and 8 rebounds in HS, 18 and 8 in prep, 18 ppg in AAU (rebounds fell off-- maybe as a result of carrying the load offensively). Should be able to stretch the floor, attack the rim, and help on the boards and be a switchy defender.
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Post by orange77 on Jun 6, 2019 13:31:36 GMT -5
Anyone know why the Siena press release does not mention Matt Hein along with the other recruits? I assume it's because he has only verbally committed, nothing in writing, which may be true for any post-grad student?
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Post by hockeyguy on Jun 6, 2019 13:39:55 GMT -5
The stats are very consistent-- 20 and 8 rebounds in HS, 18 and 8 in prep, 18 ppg in AAU (rebounds fell off-- maybe as a result of carrying the load offensively). Should be able to stretch the floor, attack the rim, and help on the boards and be a switchy defender. My take... throw out your (and anyone else's) statistics. He will be playing with 4 guys (or more) that he has never played with before, under a new coach with a system (hopefully) that he has never played in before. He will face defenders and defenses he has never seen before. And you think old numbers mean anything? It can go either way of course, but don't bet the grocery money on old statistics. A fools mission. Need further proof? Fisher..3 years of statistics.... he stinks, Sr year.. All MAAc (but mom, I had statistics), Degnan, same story "he stunk at FF and for two years at Siena (statistically). OOOPS !! Siena played at statistically the second slowest pace in D1. OOOPS... the only team that was statistically slower became national champions. The game is played by young men with heart and passion and a desire to win, not pencil pushers. Statistics are a fun distraction, just don't let them define the player. My 2 cents
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Post by goldsaint17 on Jun 6, 2019 13:49:21 GMT -5
The stats are very consistent-- 20 and 8 rebounds in HS, 18 and 8 in prep, 18 ppg in AAU (rebounds fell off-- maybe as a result of carrying the load offensively). Should be able to stretch the floor, attack the rim, and help on the boards and be a switchy defender. My take... throw out your (and anyone else's) statistics. He will be playing with 4 guys (or more) that he has never played with before, under a new coach with a system (hopefully) that he has never played in before. He will face defenders and defenses he has never seen before. And you think old numbers mean anything? It can go either way of course, but don't bet the grocery money on old statistics. A fools mission. No one is suggesting that because he had averaged 18 and 8 in HS, he’ll average 18 and 8 at Siena. But statistics are the best indicator of what a player does. If a kid isn’t capable of scoring the ball consistently in high school, he’s not going to score in college. If a kid doesn’t rebound in HS, he’s not going to rebound in college. If a kid protects the ball in high school, he’ll probably protect the ball in college. Nothing Jalen Pickett has done at Siena is antithetical to what he did in HS or prep. If anything, he was just opened up to do more of what he was always able to do by being played at PG. In evaluating a recruit, the best method is using tape to see their athletic traits and instincts while using stats to see their strengths and weaknesses as a shooter, scorer, passer, defender, etc.
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Post by hockeyguy on Jun 6, 2019 13:54:48 GMT -5
goldsaint (I am sorry, I am a sinner) I amended my first post to elaborate my point of view. Just don't pigeon hole a kid based on numbers
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Post by goldsaint17 on Jun 6, 2019 13:58:17 GMT -5
goldsaint (I am sorry, I am a sinner) I amended my first post to elaborate my point of view. Just don't pigeon hole a kid based on numbers I'll buy that-- and I am not ruling out the ability for a player to improve. I was moreso pointing out that based on what we know, it's very likely he'll be able to score at this level and rebound at this level. His shooting numbers--specifically in AAU--indicate he'll be able to hit outside shots, and his film shows he is a dynamic athlete with good instincts for blocks and steals. Just checking all those boxes at the college level puts you in the right direction to being a contributor.
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Post by hockeyguy on Jun 6, 2019 13:58:38 GMT -5
My take... throw out your (and anyone else's) statistics. He will be playing with 4 guys (or more) that he has never played with before, under a new coach with a system (hopefully) that he has never played in before. He will face defenders and defenses he has never seen before. And you think old numbers mean anything? It can go either way of course, but don't bet the grocery money on old statistics. A fools mission. No one is suggesting that because he had averaged 18 and 8 in HS, he’ll average 18 and 8 at Siena. But statistics are the best indicator of what a player does. If a kid isn’t capable of scoring the ball consistently in high school, he’s not going to score in college. If a kid doesn’t rebound in HS, he’s not going to rebound in college. If a kid protects the ball in high school, he’ll probably protect the ball in college. Nothing Jalen Pickett has done at Siena is antithetical to what he did in HS or prep. If anything, he was just opened up to do more of what he was always able to do by being played at PG. In evaluating a recruit, the best method is using tape to see their athletic traits and instincts while using stats to see their strengths and weaknesses as a shooter, scorer, passer, defender, etc. goldsaint, David Ryan, Prosper as a point guard? and "Scoop" Jordan who were asked to play way out of position and do things much to the detriment of their "numbers" at Siena. There have been a bunch of others. it all has to be taken in context.
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Jun 6, 2019 14:01:09 GMT -5
The stats are very consistent-- 20 and 8 rebounds in HS, 18 and 8 in prep, 18 ppg in AAU (rebounds fell off-- maybe as a result of carrying the load offensively). Should be able to stretch the floor, attack the rim, and help on the boards and be a switchy defender. My take... throw out your (and anyone else's) statistics. He will be playing with 4 guys (or more) that he has never played with before, under a new coach with a system (hopefully) that he has never played in before. He will face defenders and defenses he has never seen before. And you think old numbers mean anything? It can go either way of course, but don't bet the grocery money on old statistics. A fools mission. Need further proof? Fisher..3 years of statistics.... he stinks, Sr year.. All MAAc (but mom, I had statistics), Degnan, same story "he stunk at FF and for two years at Siena (statistically). OOOPS !! Siena played at statistically the second slowest pace in D1. OOOPS... the only team that was statistically slower became national champions. The game is played by young men with heart and passion and a desire to win, not pencil pushers. Statistics are a fun distraction, just don't let them define the player. My 2 cents Evan Fisher averaged 14.4 PPG, 9.9 RPG, 0.7 APG, 0.3 BPG, 1.8 Turnovers per game his senior year in high school. His senior year at Siena he scored 15.9 PPG, 6.0 RPG, 1.5 APG, 0.5 BPG, and 1.7 turnovers per game. Pretty much a perfect example of a guy that you could tell what you were going to get off his high school statistics.
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Post by hockeyguy on Jun 6, 2019 14:19:24 GMT -5
So what happened the first three years for Fisher and Degnan? Do we have to wait for Harris to become a senior? Forget the numbers, just watch the kid play and what kind of player he plays best off of. I think we will have a rough idea by 2nd week of December.
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Jun 6, 2019 14:59:49 GMT -5
So what happened the first three years for Fisher and Degnan? Do we have to wait for Harris to become a senior? Forget the numbers, just watch the kid play and what kind of player he plays best off of. I think we will have a rough idea by 2nd week of December. What do you think is worthy of discussion with potential recruits in June?
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Post by Tony on Jun 6, 2019 15:10:06 GMT -5
No recruit is a slam dunk, we have seen highly rated kids fall flat on their face, and we have seen lightly regarded kids excel. However athletic ability, (quality of kids offers) high school, prep/AAU stats are all good indicators that are right far more often than wrong. I guess bottom line would I rather have a highly regarded mid major prospect or a relative unknown—no question what way I go. Fran’s teams were built on kids with similar resume to Harris think Ubiles, Franklin, Jackson, Rossiter, OD. And yes I know about Kenny and to a certain extent Ronald ( although Vermont wanted him badly) diamonds in the rough is always nice to find- but success rate on those type kids is not high
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Jun 6, 2019 15:10:51 GMT -5
So what happened the first three years for Fisher and Degnan? Do we have to wait for Harris to become a senior? Forget the numbers, just watch the kid play and what kind of player he plays best off of. I think we will have a rough idea by 2nd week of December. I don't think anyone here is making the argument that guys can't improve as they get older, thought that was pretty well established as fact. You could tell from Fisher's stats that his ceiling was never going to be as a great shotblocking or passing big man, he developed into exactly what his high school numbers suggested.
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mike60
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Post by mike60 on Jun 6, 2019 15:12:56 GMT -5
HG What do they use to evaluate hockey players,how fast does he throw an uppercut? No I think they look at many of the same things as in basketball, scores, takeaways, puck control, etc.
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Post by Tony on Jun 6, 2019 15:13:46 GMT -5
So what happened the first three years for Fisher and Degnan? Do we have to wait for Harris to become a senior? Forget the numbers, just watch the kid play and what kind of player he plays best off of. I think we will have a rough idea by 2nd week of December. I don't think anyone here is making the argument that guys can't improve as they get older, thought that was pretty well established as fact. You could tell from Fisher's stats that his ceiling was never going to be as a great shotblocking or passing big man, he developed into exactly what his high school numbers suggested. Because of Fisher lack of athleticism his ceiling was never that high, Evan had a great senior year, playing in a system that suited him with a PG that got him the ball in a position to do something with it. One of biggest mistakes Jimbo made was try to make Evan Fisher a stretch four instead of the 5 his lack of speed dictated he should be
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Jun 6, 2019 15:39:20 GMT -5
So what happened the first three years for Fisher and Degnan? Do we have to wait for Harris to become a senior? Forget the numbers, just watch the kid play and what kind of player he plays best off of. I think we will have a rough idea by 2nd week of December. Patsos happened! Fisher Smithen and Degnan finally materializing was pretty much all due to a change of scenery.
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