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Post by greengold4ever on Feb 11, 2019 15:32:57 GMT -5
If there are any other suggestions to get some more scoring without altering our style of play, shoot away. The game plans and adjustments have been great, it just seems that if our offense takes a step forward and our defense keeps up, we might be the team to beat in the maac. Who'd ever guess that entering this year? you bring up a valid take, we certinaly could use more points...……….and collectively we have seen even in this string of victories / tight games...…….but also remember, we are leaving points at the FT line, it would be great to improve that overall FT shooting by a few pct points in each game because that would translate into more points...…….and our 3pt shooting at times have suffered with long droughts (I think the last few games Degnan has struggled, and he is the best long ball pct shooter we have)………….from a stylistic point of view, other than attacking that press offensively AND attacking the rim from the "wings" with both Smithen & Camper, not much else we can do other than to continue to be efficiently productive in our offensive possessions, we are one of the best in the country in that category...………...
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Post by sienafanallyearlong2 on Feb 11, 2019 23:59:50 GMT -5
Like how well they have been playing. Like coach. Like how they have defended. Like how at times they are actually looking to score in transition. Like how they are winning. Like how Smithen is getting his chance for extended minutes and is having a positive impact. Like how Fisher continues to find ways to score. Like Pickett's continued overall positive presence despite not shooting that well as of late. Like a lot of things about this team right now. As we all do right now I reiterate that I like that they are winning.
But dont fool yourself. Its ugly boring offensive hoop watching Pickett dribble down with his back to his defender for 7-10 seconds on most possesions. That brand of hoop does not attract new fans in this day and age. If your truthful with yourself the only reason most anyone on this board including me likes it or at least tolerates it is because at the moment they are winning. If they lost 3 of those close low scoring games and were 5-7 instead of 8-4 I dont think I would be as alone as I am on this board.
As great as it is that we are 8-4 in the league and have won four straight (kudos to both coaches and players for getting it done), and have shut teams down offensively, dont think that we will not need to score more or avoid long stretches of ugly offensive ball to have a chance at winning this thing and getting into the big dance.
I just dont think we can expect to score 58-63 pts on three straight nights and expect to win the MAAC Championship.
My prediction is that we will need to score 67 or more points to do this on at least two of the three night.
That means we need to keep scoring in the last 5 minutes of the half and in the game. More times than not we seem to shut down during these time periods.
One thing that teams have not done on us is consistently test our transition defense and stay committed to an up tempo game throughout the game regardless of success and run; run everytime; run after misses, and run after scored baskets.
Forget pressing us. If I were the opposition I would avoid playing against our height in the half court game and just test our athleticism and quickness in getting back on transition defense on every possesion.
I think the team that does that will be the team that will challenge us the most. Let us slow it down. Just hit the boards and run. If we can pass that test then I think we will have as good a chance as anyone in winning this thing.
Go Saints!
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Feb 12, 2019 6:15:00 GMT -5
Like how well they have been playing. Like coach. Like how they have defended. Like how at times they are actually looking to score in transition. Like how they are winning. Like how Smithen is getting his chance for extended minutes and is having a positive impact. Like how Fisher continues to find ways to score. Like Pickett's continued overall positive presence despite not shooting that well as of late. Like a lot of things about this team right now. As we all do right now I reiterate that I like that they are winning. But dont fool yourself. Its ugly boring offensive hoop watching Pickett dribble down with his back to his defender for 7-10 seconds on most possesions. That brand of hoop does not attract new fans in this day and age. If your truthful with yourself the only reason most anyone on this board including me likes it or at least tolerates it is because at the moment they are winning. If they lost 3 of those close low scoring games and were 5-7 instead of 8-4 I dont think I would be as alone as I am on this board. As great as it is that we are 8-4 in the league and have won four straight (kudos to both coaches and players for getting it done), and have shut teams down offensively, dont think that we will not need to score more or avoid long stretches of ugly offensive ball to have a chance at winning this thing and getting into the big dance. I just dont think we can expect to score 58-63 pts on three straight nights and expect to win the MAAC Championship. My prediction is that we will need to score 67 or more points to do this on at least two of the three night. That means we need to keep scoring in the last 5 minutes of the half and in the game. More times than not we seem to shut down during these time periods. One thing that teams have not done on us is consistently test our transition defense and stay committed to an up tempo game throughout the game regardless of success and run; run everytime; run after misses, and run after scored baskets. Forget pressing us. If I were the opposition I would avoid playing against our height in the half court game and just test our athleticism and quickness in getting back on transition defense on every possesion. I think the team that does that will be the team that will challenge us the most. Let us slow it down. Just hit the boards and run. If we can pass that test then I think we will have as good a chance as anyone in winning this thing. Go Saints! Just enjoy this team for what it is. They are winning games for a change. Realize that they still have a lot of work to do and room for improvement over the next few years. And yes I would like to see them run the offense in the last five minutes too. But it’s not ugly to win. This could never be ugly. m.youtube.com/watch?v=ku1H44xUqvk
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mike60
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Post by mike60 on Feb 12, 2019 6:22:28 GMT -5
If we use when it is contrary to fact. We didn't lose those games because we have some players who couldn't keep up as you suggest. The coach has to do what he can to win with the players he has. You know that JC would like to run, but he can't wear,say, Fisher down not just for a game but for a season.
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Feb 12, 2019 12:27:16 GMT -5
Ok SFAYL2 we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. I really don’t see how Siena winning these games (with the current players overachieving just about everyone’s expectations regardless of exactly how they’re winning) makes this tough to watch (ugly).
I’m finding this one of the most enjoyable basketball seasons in the past 8 years. I really enjoyed Mitch’s injury riddled over achieving and Jommy’s CBI Championship year also but this season has surpassed my viewing pleasure to rank this above those two seasons,
I don’t care if Siena wins by only scoring 42 points (as long as they hold their opponent to under 42 (obviously). Because I know it’s only going to be like this for this year only. I expect JC and team will score more next year when our offensive weapons are back (including some of the new recruits).
I also disagree that Siena “has” to score in the high 60’s in order to win MAAC Tournament. All they have to do is hold down the opposing team and score more.
Siena has already shown they’re capable of limiting the high MAAC offense teams to under 50 or 60.
I don’t think JC has to tweak this team much more as they’re running on all cylinders like a well oiled machine.
I do agree that to maybe drum up the casual fans’ interest it’d be nice to have a more potent offense but we’re alreafy seeing fan interest growing with this season.
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Feb 12, 2019 12:57:40 GMT -5
Like how well they have been playing. Like coach. Like how they have defended. Like how at times they are actually looking to score in transition. Like how they are winning. Like how Smithen is getting his chance for extended minutes and is having a positive impact. Like how Fisher continues to find ways to score. Like Pickett's continued overall positive presence despite not shooting that well as of late. Like a lot of things about this team right now. As we all do right now I reiterate that I like that they are winning. But dont fool yourself. Its ugly boring offensive hoop watching Pickett dribble down with his back to his defender for 7-10 seconds on most possesions. That brand of hoop does not attract new fans in this day and age. If your truthful with yourself the only reason most anyone on this board including me likes it or at least tolerates it is because at the moment they are winning. If they lost 3 of those close low scoring games and were 5-7 instead of 8-4 I dont think I would be as alone as I am on this board. As great as it is that we are 8-4 in the league and have won four straight (kudos to both coaches and players for getting it done), and have shut teams down offensively, dont think that we will not need to score more or avoid long stretches of ugly offensive ball to have a chance at winning this thing and getting into the big dance. I just dont think we can expect to score 58-63 pts on three straight nights and expect to win the MAAC Championship. My prediction is that we will need to score 67 or more points to do this on at least two of the three night. That means we need to keep scoring in the last 5 minutes of the half and in the game. More times than not we seem to shut down during these time periods. One thing that teams have not done on us is consistently test our transition defense and stay committed to an up tempo game throughout the game regardless of success and run; run everytime; run after misses, and run after scored baskets. Forget pressing us. If I were the opposition I would avoid playing against our height in the half court game and just test our athleticism and quickness in getting back on transition defense on every possesion. I think the team that does that will be the team that will challenge us the most. Let us slow it down. Just hit the boards and run. If we can pass that test then I think we will have as good a chance as anyone in winning this thing. Go Saints! When Tony Bennett took over in Virginia they averaged 10,141 attendance per game. Despite his boring defensive focused style (a style far more boring that what Siena is playing) attendance jumped to 13,923 last year. That is almost a 40% increase and would undoubtedly be even higher if the arena capacity was more than 14,593. In the same time period Georgetown attendance has dropped from 12,040 to 7,531 despite scoring almost 10 PPG more. Winning, not scoring, draws fans.
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Feb 12, 2019 13:31:11 GMT -5
Ok SFAYL2 we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. I really don’t see how Siena winning these games (with the current players overachieving just about everyone’s expectations regardless of exactly how they’re winning) makes this tough to watch (ugly). I’m finding this one of the most enjoyable basketball seasons in the past 8 years. I really enjoyed Mitch’s injury riddled over achieving and Jommy’s CBI Championship year also but this season has surpassed my viewing pleasure to rank this above those two seasons, I don’t care if Siena wins by only scoring 42 points (as long as they hold their opponent to under 42 (obviously). Because I know it’s only going to be like this for this year only. I expect JC and team will score more next year when our offensive weapons are back (including some of the new recruits). I also disagree that Siena “has” to score in the high 60’s in order to win MAAC Tournament. All they have to do is hold down the opposing team and score more. Siena has already shown they’re capable of limiting the high MAAC offense teams to under 50 or 60. I don’t think JC has to tweak this team much more as they’re running on all cylinders like a well oiled machine. I do agree that to maybe drum up the casual fans’ interest it’d be nice to have a more potent offense but we’re alreafy seeing fan interest growing with this season. I wouldn’t put this season head of jp 1 (yet). Im in the minoritybut idigvthe c tourneys. And to win it was cool. We were like of the last teams playing. Standing in line for a few hours getting tickets is something you don’t see too often at a school as small as Siena. Bisping played the best ball of his career (or at least that’s how I remember it). For one week I thought maybe I was wrong and Siena was back. It didn’t work out but doesn’t diminish the accomplishment for me. Mb2 was enjoyable and probably on par with this one, have to think about that. I always wonder if mb could have been a better coach if we limited him to 8 players.
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Feb 12, 2019 13:33:18 GMT -5
Like how well they have been playing. Like coach. Like how they have defended. Like how at times they are actually looking to score in transition. Like how they are winning. Like how Smithen is getting his chance for extended minutes and is having a positive impact. Like how Fisher continues to find ways to score. Like Pickett's continued overall positive presence despite not shooting that well as of late. Like a lot of things about this team right now. As we all do right now I reiterate that I like that they are winning. But dont fool yourself. Its ugly boring offensive hoop watching Pickett dribble down with his back to his defender for 7-10 seconds on most possesions. That brand of hoop does not attract new fans in this day and age. If your truthful with yourself the only reason most anyone on this board including me likes it or at least tolerates it is because at the moment they are winning. If they lost 3 of those close low scoring games and were 5-7 instead of 8-4 I dont think I would be as alone as I am on this board. As great as it is that we are 8-4 in the league and have won four straight (kudos to both coaches and players for getting it done), and have shut teams down offensively, dont think that we will not need to score more or avoid long stretches of ugly offensive ball to have a chance at winning this thing and getting into the big dance. I just dont think we can expect to score 58-63 pts on three straight nights and expect to win the MAAC Championship. My prediction is that we will need to score 67 or more points to do this on at least two of the three night. That means we need to keep scoring in the last 5 minutes of the half and in the game. More times than not we seem to shut down during these time periods. One thing that teams have not done on us is consistently test our transition defense and stay committed to an up tempo game throughout the game regardless of success and run; run everytime; run after misses, and run after scored baskets. Forget pressing us. If I were the opposition I would avoid playing against our height in the half court game and just test our athleticism and quickness in getting back on transition defense on every possesion. I think the team that does that will be the team that will challenge us the most. Let us slow it down. Just hit the boards and run. If we can pass that test then I think we will have as good a chance as anyone in winning this thing. Go Saints! When Tony Bennett took over in Virginia they averaged 10,141 attendance per game. Despite his boring defensive focused style (a style far more boring that what Siena is playing) attendance jumped to 13,923 last year. That is almost a 40% increase and would undoubtedly be even higher if the arena capacity was more than 14,593. In the same time period Georgetown attendance has dropped from 12,040 to 7,531 despite scoring almost 10 PPG more. Winning, not scoring, draws fans. Doesn’t get any more objective than that. Winning is the key and the single most important factor to attendance building. Now winning at home would be even better so these next four are important.
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Post by greengold4ever on Feb 12, 2019 13:43:36 GMT -5
Like how well they have been playing. Like coach. Like how they have defended. Like how at times they are actually looking to score in transition. Like how they are winning. Like how Smithen is getting his chance for extended minutes and is having a positive impact. Like how Fisher continues to find ways to score. Like Pickett's continued overall positive presence despite not shooting that well as of late. Like a lot of things about this team right now. As we all do right now I reiterate that I like that they are winning. But dont fool yourself. Its ugly boring offensive hoop watching Pickett dribble down with his back to his defender for 7-10 seconds on most possesions. That brand of hoop does not attract new fans in this day and age. If your truthful with yourself the only reason most anyone on this board including me likes it or at least tolerates it is because at the moment they are winning. If they lost 3 of those close low scoring games and were 5-7 instead of 8-4 I dont think I would be as alone as I am on this board. As great as it is that we are 8-4 in the league and have won four straight (kudos to both coaches and players for getting it done), and have shut teams down offensively, dont think that we will not need to score more or avoid long stretches of ugly offensive ball to have a chance at winning this thing and getting into the big dance. I just dont think we can expect to score 58-63 pts on three straight nights and expect to win the MAAC Championship. My prediction is that we will need to score 67 or more points to do this on at least two of the three night. That means we need to keep scoring in the last 5 minutes of the half and in the game. More times than not we seem to shut down during these time periods. One thing that teams have not done on us is consistently test our transition defense and stay committed to an up tempo game throughout the game regardless of success and run; run everytime; run after misses, and run after scored baskets. Forget pressing us. If I were the opposition I would avoid playing against our height in the half court game and just test our athleticism and quickness in getting back on transition defense on every possesion. I think the team that does that will be the team that will challenge us the most. Let us slow it down. Just hit the boards and run. If we can pass that test then I think we will have as good a chance as anyone in winning this thing. Go Saints! When Tony Bennett took over in Virginia they averaged 10,141 attendance per game. Despite his boring defensive focused style (a style far more boring that what Siena is playing) attendance jumped to 13,923 last year. That is almost a 40% increase and would undoubtedly be even higher if the arena capacity was more than 14,593. In the same time period Georgetown attendance has dropped from 12,040 to 7,531 despite scoring almost 10 PPG more. Winning, not scoring, draws fans. your right, and in this area winning is the BIG KEY...……………...but think of this, that defensive style killed UVA last yr, as they became the first #1 to lose to a #16 seed (UMBC)…...they weren't just beaten, they were manhandled, not only did the Cavs have trouble scoring but they could NOT stop UMBC from scoring, which was surprising...………...this yr, Tony Bennett's team is still pretty stout on the defensive side but he made sure he has some offense to go with it...…………...our own JC was being interviewed yesterday on ch. 10 and he indeed mentioned the NEED to get more points on the board, indicating that would be focus of the game prep for these last 6 reg season games (I am sure that is gonna make some people on this board very happy)...…………..
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knicksaint
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Post by knicksaint on Feb 12, 2019 14:48:24 GMT -5
Like how well they have been playing. Like coach. Like how they have defended. Like how at times they are actually looking to score in transition. Like how they are winning. Like how Smithen is getting his chance for extended minutes and is having a positive impact. Like how Fisher continues to find ways to score. Like Pickett's continued overall positive presence despite not shooting that well as of late. Like a lot of things about this team right now. As we all do right now I reiterate that I like that they are winning. But dont fool yourself. Its ugly boring offensive hoop watching Pickett dribble down with his back to his defender for 7-10 seconds on most possesions. That brand of hoop does not attract new fans in this day and age. If your truthful with yourself the only reason most anyone on this board including me likes it or at least tolerates it is because at the moment they are winning. If they lost 3 of those close low scoring games and were 5-7 instead of 8-4 I dont think I would be as alone as I am on this board. As great as it is that we are 8-4 in the league and have won four straight (kudos to both coaches and players for getting it done), and have shut teams down offensively, dont think that we will not need to score more or avoid long stretches of ugly offensive ball to have a chance at winning this thing and getting into the big dance. I just dont think we can expect to score 58-63 pts on three straight nights and expect to win the MAAC Championship. My prediction is that we will need to score 67 or more points to do this on at least two of the three night. That means we need to keep scoring in the last 5 minutes of the half and in the game. More times than not we seem to shut down during these time periods. One thing that teams have not done on us is consistently test our transition defense and stay committed to an up tempo game throughout the game regardless of success and run; run everytime; run after misses, and run after scored baskets. Forget pressing us. If I were the opposition I would avoid playing against our height in the half court game and just test our athleticism and quickness in getting back on transition defense on every possesion. I think the team that does that will be the team that will challenge us the most. Let us slow it down. Just hit the boards and run. If we can pass that test then I think we will have as good a chance as anyone in winning this thing. Go Saints! When Tony Bennett took over in Virginia they averaged 10,141 attendance per game. Despite his boring defensive focused style (a style far more boring that what Siena is playing) attendance jumped to 13,923 last year. That is almost a 40% increase and would undoubtedly be even higher if the arena capacity was more than 14,593. In the same time period Georgetown attendance has dropped from 12,040 to 7,531 despite scoring almost 10 PPG more. Winning, not scoring, draws fans. When my daughter was at UVA Law from 2012-2015, I saw the Cavs play at JPJ four times. The arena was packed every time and the reaction of the fans was far from boredom. And by the way, UVA scored from 59 to 78 points in those four games and kept all four opponents (Clemson, Miami, GWU and Pitt) under 50 points. As much as I love the Saints and am not complaining about this year's pace of play, UVA's style during those three seasons was not "far more boring than what Siena is playing."
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Post by sienafanallyearlong2 on Feb 14, 2019 12:12:30 GMT -5
Glad to hear that JC said on Ch 10 News that they "need" to score more points in these last 6 games....even though they did not accomplish that last night. At least he is publically acknowledging it.
And as far as attendance goes all you have to do is look at last nights game.
Over the hump day of the week on not a very cold night. New coach. Young coach. 8-4 league record and a 1/2 game out of first going into last nights game playing against arch rival Iona.
And regardless of what the official count was there were no more than 3500-4000 fans at the game if that, and very few students. Very old audience. Downtown around the TU is like a ghost town. No more bars open. No energy.
I am not blaming coach on this but rather D'Arg on this one for ruining this program. But the sooner they realize that they have a serious brand image problem from what they were to what they are they sooner they can start to build this program back.
....and "part" of that lies not only in winning but in the style of play being played and providing a higher level of "entertainment" dollar to get those non-alumni young 20 something college basketball fans back to games and downtown.
The only way to get back to crowds of actual 7500 or more fans is through the non-alumni younger college basketball fan crowd. Right now this crowd does not respect Siena and sorry to tell you this but plain and simple, a winning 58 pt per game winning Siena team will not get their respect or interest or money.
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Post by greenblood on Feb 14, 2019 13:38:24 GMT -5
Glad to hear that JC said on Ch 10 News that they "need" to score more points in these last 6 games....even though they did not accomplish that last night. At least he is publically acknowledging it. And as far as attendance goes all you have to do is look at last nights game. Over the hump day of the week on not a very cold night. New coach. Young coach. 8-4 league record and a 1/2 game out of first going into last nights game playing against arch rival Iona. And regardless of what the official count was there were no more than 3500-4000 fans at the game if that, and very few students. Very old audience. Downtown around the TU is like a ghost town. No more bars open. No energy. I am not blaming coach on this but rather D'Arg on this one for ruining this program. But the sooner they realize that they have a serious brand image problem from what they were to what they are they sooner they can start to build this program back. ....and "part" of that lies not only in winning but in the style of play being played and providing a higher level of "entertainment" dollar to get those non-alumni young 20 something college basketball fans back to games and downtown. The only way to get back to crowds of actual 7500 or more fans is through the non-alumni younger college basketball fan crowd. Right now this crowd does not respect Siena and sorry to tell you this but plain and simple, a winning 58 pt per game winning Siena team will not get their respect or interest or money. They know it and they are working on all of it....but ROME WAS NOT INCINERATED IN ONE SEASON AND CAN'T RISE FROM THE ASHES IN ONE SEASON. It's going to take time and energy. We have the staff in place that will put forth said energy while re-setting the course of the program. You are dead on about non-alumni and younger fans. I do not wish to disparage anyone on the AD staff, but they need to have an influx of ideas and blood from outside the Siena family to churn some new ideas- or at least people who bring with them ideas from other successful programs. Also, I believe that it would be a good idea to pare down the number of D-1 offerings in general. At the end of the day one program generates income....Men's BBALL. That's it. I think the way that is spread around needs a careful overhaul.
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Feb 14, 2019 16:52:07 GMT -5
The first thing they need to do besides win is open the arena or go back to the arc. They need to promote an atmosphere of inclusion not exclusion. Team is 8-5 and in a fight for a bye and there are only 709 seats left 3 days before the game. We used to get 2,000 walk up. Now Siena is saying FU we don’t need you. Not too bright.
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Post by psycholojets on Feb 15, 2019 8:00:22 GMT -5
I thought the point of this thread was that the current style of play would not attract fans. Now it is on to how they need to not shut fans out? I guess we see the impact of tough to watch winning basketball.
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