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Post by sienafanallyearlong2 on Jan 15, 2019 23:01:21 GMT -5
Sad but watching this type of bad slow down non entertaining basketball has been the old new norm for the past 8 years. Nothing surprising.
Mitch ball, JP, and now JC. All pretty much the same type of ball to date.
I hope this JC is not the normal JC. It better not be. Only time will tell I guess.
I will be blown away when I actually see a basket scored in transition. A delayed break 3 pt.'er. A break away dunk. Anything. A layup will suffice.
Lack of athleticism. Depleted roster. All true but no reason to not let your guys go and if they have something let her rip.
It does not mean you can't push the ball up the floor with a controlled up tempo style.
Preseason Mayhem should have them in shape for it, correct?
I say if you are going to lose let's lose while trying to make it a different type of ball coach.
Bring at least a little Mayhem....please ....just a little.
Please regardless of wins and losses get me excited to come to games again.
Losing in college does not get you higher draft picks next year so why not give the ball to Pickett and let these guys get used to what real Mayhem is gonna be like next year.
Get the players excited. Get us excited.
Let's make it entertaining instead of the continued multiple 35 second shot clock violations.
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Post by hoopsforever on Jan 15, 2019 23:06:33 GMT -5
I may be wrong here - but I think it is a 30 second clock Sienafan, maybe you have been watching too many HS games!
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rpize24
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Post by rpize24 on Jan 15, 2019 23:35:12 GMT -5
It’s a 30 second shot clock and I’ll reiterate what’s been said many times and should be known by now: the players that were left don’t really fit JC’s system. If you look at who is coming in next year there’s a lot more guards and a hell of a lot more athleticism. Cut the guy some slack as he’s doing the best with what he’s got and hell Fisher has a good chance to be at least 2nd team all MAAC and for Pickett there could be a legitimate shot for first team. Obviously it’s tough considering the record in the MAAC could very well be 3-1 but it’s a rebuilding year so just get whatever enjoyment you can then have expectations of success for next year’s team
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Post by goldsaint17 on Jan 15, 2019 23:46:07 GMT -5
If you don’t think this offense is much more exciting to watch than last year’s, I don’t know what to tell you. This isn’t a stall-ball offense... it’s involves fairly constant movement around the Pick and Roll. It’s slow because there are no athletes or shot-creators: How many times this year have you seen Jalen break his man off the bounce and to get his own? He can’t. You can attack much quicker out of our sets when you have several guys who can get their own.
The ideal way to play this offense is this:
Imagine if when Jalen set the screen and started to penetrate, he could pass out to 2-3 other guys who can shoot and drive, attack off the bounce, force the defense to collapse, and kick it out for an open shot. That’s what we’ll have. Right now, if we get separation and pass out to an open man on the perimeter, its either a guy who can’t shoot: Camper/Smithen, or a guy who can’t drive: Seymour/Degnan/Ratliff/Darwiche. So if the defense closes hard on the shooter, the momentum of the play is over and we reset. Throw in the likes of Carey, Richard, Walker, and Sutherland, who on paper can hit shots consistently and attack a closeout, and the defense will have a ton of trouble guarding us. We’ll also be able to push in transition, which we can’t do right now unless Camper or Smithen gets the steal or its a 1 on 0 fast break.
Pickett/Richard/Carey/Seymour/Burns with a Walker/Darwiche/Ratliff/Sutherland/Friday second unit should be better on both ends... you really don’t give up anything shooting-wise from this year’s team but you are a lot more athletic, better defensively, more switchable, more guys who can attack when the shot clock gets low. The only thing we might drop off in is post scoring (Fisher has a ton of polished moves) but Burns won’t be a big drop off if so and will be better defensively, plus we won’t need the scoring if we have other guards.
Jamion has never played absurdly fast in his career. He has one season below 125th nationally in average offensive possession length, and this will be the 4th in his 7 seasons that he has been 291st or higher. The “Mayhem” comes from forcing turnovers on defense— he’s top 75 in turnover rate all but one year and 3 years in the top 25 nationally. Compare that to this year where we are at 316th.
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Post by loudonville9 on Jan 16, 2019 0:47:34 GMT -5
Siena scores 105 points per 100 possessions. Siena allows 116 points per 100 possessions. When you get outscored by 11 points every 100 possessions and would like to win games, you attempt to decrease the number of possessions.
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glen
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Post by glen on Jan 16, 2019 7:25:48 GMT -5
GS17 - I agree. Even though the scoring isn't there consistently, this team is much easier to watch than anything the last 8 years. We have an nonathletic roster to start with. Remove Friday, Ratliff and for a while Camper and how are you supposed to run!??!? I get the frustration but that's reality. Sure run. We may even do well for a half but the 2nd half would be a disaster.
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Post by SaintsFan on Jan 16, 2019 8:48:01 GMT -5
this team doesnt have the speed to run. What lineup do would be suggested to do that?
And lets stop with the Smithen talk. The faster the game the more out of control he is. Simple reality is to run you need some speed.
Fisher Degnan Seymour Friday Huerter Ratliff
None really excel running given the lack of guard depth this team has. Running is a guard game. Two of Siena's best guards are in street clothes (Carey, Richard). Darwiche is coming around. Pickett is the real deal. Now, next year, Pickett, Carey, Richard, Darwiche, Walker and of course Sutherland is fairly athletic to shore up some of the front court lack of speed. A guy like Seymour will be far more effective with these players in the lineup
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Post by sienafanallyearlong2 on Jan 16, 2019 8:57:56 GMT -5
I know your all going to be upset because I am challenging coach but so be it.
If you are all accepting of losing this year as you all appear to be.....I have no problem with that. I get it. Free pass. Give the coach time. Not his roster. No athletes, bla, bla, bla.
But if that is the case where losing is ok this year why not use the kids you do have to play the system you do promote rather than wait the 10(+) seconds it takes Fisher and Seymour and company to get up the court every possession because the coach encourages everyone to wait.
I do see freedom to shoot and play this year without a guy having to look over his shoulder all the time (which is awesome) vs. the Patsos years but even JP's teams would run a lot more for at least a half of a game. There were plenty of times Marquis and company would score in transition. And in the half court I dont see much more movement of the ball or off the ball movement than I did with the Patsos teams. I really dont. Seymour literally gets to his spot and literally does not move for many possesions and that is ok with coach.
It will only get those kids who do play and will get playing time in this system next year (Pickett, Seymour, Camper) that much better at it so come Game 1 and not Game 10 next year you will be more prepared to have success in the system in the first game and not the 10th game as you will have had at least 3 guys who were playing the system in games all this year and another two (Burns and Carey) who will have been playing the system all year in practice.....if they actually do play it.
My worry is that what we are seeing is this years version of Mayhem right now. And if that is the case that bores me beyond having to name things like Mayhem or the Turkey Board.
And as it was so eloquently explained up above with the numbers, if that is the case we will be seeing a lot of slow down ho hum type of basketball next year as well. No transition. A ton of threes. Not much going to the hoop. Not much movement. Pretty one dimensional. Which is contrary to pressing and forcing turnovers that the numbers also pointed out were in his favor.
Hope this is not the case. I really do. I am not saying it is. But if it is, unless you are going to be going to the Big Dance every year winning games Virginia ugly 65-61 or 63-59 this type of mayhem will not do much for growing your base. If your winning it may keep your base but it will certainly not grow it. Just saying.
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Jan 16, 2019 9:31:42 GMT -5
It doesn't matter how well conditioned the kids are, if your team has guys playing 38 to 40 minutes a night and the other team has guys playing 28 to 30 there is no conditioning edge on the planet that is going to make it to the benefit of your team to play uptempo. This might be a development year where wins and losses don't matter so much but it is still absolutely the job of the coach to put his team in the best position to win. He is doing that with the players he has. And even with the slow tempo this team is infinitely more fun to watch on offense than under the previous two coaches. You are really missing the ball on this one.
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Post by SaintsFan on Jan 16, 2019 9:48:24 GMT -5
I know your all going to be upset because I am challenging coach but so be it. If you are all accepting of losing this year as you all appear to be.....I have no problem with that. I get it. Free pass. Give the coach time. Not his roster. No athletes, bla, bla, bla. But if that is the case where losing is ok this year why not use the kids you do have to play the system you do promote rather than wait the 10(+) seconds it takes Fisher and Seymour and company to get up the court every possession because the coach encourages everyone to wait. I do see freedom to shoot and play this year without a guy having to look over his shoulder all the time (which is awesome) vs. the Patsos years but even JP's teams would run a lot more for at least a half of a game. There were plenty of times Marquis and company would score in transition. And in the half court I dont see much more movement of the ball or off the ball movement than I did with the Patsos teams. I really dont. Seymour literally gets to his spot and literally does not move for many possesions and that is ok with coach. It will only get those kids who do play and will get playing time in this system next year (Pickett, Seymour, Camper) that much better at it so come Game 1 and not Game 10 next year you will be more prepared to have success in the system in the first game and not the 10th game as you will have had at least 3 guys who were playing the system in games all this year and another two (Burns and Carey) who will have been playing the system all year in practice.....if they actually do play it. My worry is that what we are seeing is this years version of Mayhem right now. And if that is the case that bores me beyond having to name things like Mayhem or the Turkey Board. And as it was so eloquently explained up above with the numbers, if that is the case we will be seeing a lot of slow down ho hum type of basketball next year as well. No transition. A ton of threes. Not much going to the hoop. Not much movement. Pretty one dimensional. Which is contrary to pressing and forcing turnovers that the numbers also pointed out were in his favor. Hope this is not the case. I really do. I am not saying it is. But if it is, unless you are going to be going to the Big Dance every year winning games Virginia ugly 65-61 or 63-59 this type of mayhem will not do much for growing your base. If your winning it may keep your base but it will certainly not grow it. Just saying. i dont mind you questioning the coach. I just think if they ran... the outcome would be even worse.
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greengold4ever
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Post by greengold4ever on Jan 16, 2019 10:02:52 GMT -5
Sad but watching this type of bad slow down non entertaining basketball has been the old new norm for the past 8 years. Nothing surprising. Mitch ball, JP, and now JC. All pretty much the same type of ball to date. I hope this JC is not the normal JC. It better not be. Only time will tell I guess. I will be blown away when I actually see a basket scored in transition. A delayed break 3 pt.'er. A break away dunk. Anything. A layup will suffice. Lack of athleticism. Depleted roster. All true but no reason to not let your guys go and if they have something let her rip. It does not mean you can't push the ball up the floor with a controlled up tempo style. Preseason Mayhem should have them in shape for it, correct? I say if you are going to lose let's lose while trying to make it a different type of ball coach. Bring at least a little Mayhem....please ....just a little. Please regardless of wins and losses get me excited to come to games again. Losing in college does not get you higher draft picks next year so why not give the ball to Pickett and let these guys get used to what real Mayhem is gonna be like next year. Get the players excited. Get us excited. Let's make it entertaining instead of the continued multiple 35 second shot clock violations. um, nobody is "accepting" losing...……….not JC, the coaching staff or the players...…………...except for 2 games, they have had the opportunity to win every single game...……...considering what the new staff is confronted with, from a "realistic" viewpoint, that is a tremendous job so far...…………...they are playing each game to win, no one is conceding anything this yr no matter what our circumstances are...……………..Mayhem is all about the defensive pressure, it has NOTHING to do with the offensive flow other than creating points off turnovers...……....…...at this point in time, we are not capable of delivering that based on the roster, next yr we will have that ability...……………..the players ARE excited, look at that effort every game...……..
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jong10
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Post by jong10 on Jan 16, 2019 10:09:58 GMT -5
The bottom line is - while much of the fanbase may not be as concerned about wins and losses, the coach is absolutely focused on giving the team the best chance to win. Limiting possessions is the best way to do that.
I guarantee you that Coach doesn't consider this a lost season and that the W's and L's don't matter. Every game matters and there is clear gameplanning and adjustments to win each time on the floor - with the roster as it is, not what it may be in the future.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Jan 16, 2019 11:26:51 GMT -5
Sad but watching this type of bad slow down non entertaining basketball has been the old new norm for the past 8 years. Nothing surprising. Mitch ball, JP, and now JC. All pretty much the same type of ball to date. I hope this JC is not the normal JC. It better not be. Only time will tell I guess. I will be blown away when I actually see a basket scored in transition. A delayed break 3 pt.'er. A break away dunk. Anything. A layup will suffice. Lack of athleticism. Depleted roster. All true but no reason to not let your guys go and if they have something let her rip. It does not mean you can't push the ball up the floor with a controlled up tempo style. Preseason Mayhem should have them in shape for it, correct? I say if you are going to lose let's lose while trying to make it a different type of ball coach. Bring at least a little Mayhem....please ....just a little. Please regardless of wins and losses get me excited to come to games again. Losing in college does not get you higher draft picks next year so why not give the ball to Pickett and let these guys get used to what real Mayhem is gonna be like next year. Get the players excited. Get us excited. Let's make it entertaining instead of the continued multiple 35 second shot clock violations. Mayhem is all about the defensive pressure, it has NOTHING to do with the offensive flow other than creating points off turnovers...….. You realize we re LAST IN THE COUNTRY at turning people over. And it’s not close since we were 7.5 and the next lowest is 9.0. Calling this defense “Mayhem” is like calling Rosie O’Donnell sexy.
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SaintMisbehavin
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Post by SaintMisbehavin on Jan 16, 2019 11:41:32 GMT -5
Since it seems abundantly pertinent to this thread - this is what I posted/predicted in June... What Mayhem Means
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greengold4ever
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Post by greengold4ever on Jan 16, 2019 11:42:12 GMT -5
Mayhem is all about the defensive pressure, it has NOTHING to do with the offensive flow other than creating points off turnovers...….. You realize we re LAST IN THE COUNTRY at turning people over. And it’s not close since we were 7.5 and the next lowest is 9.0. Calling this defense “Mayhem” is like calling Rosie O’Donnell sexy. HJ, yes we all know that, and you know we can't deliver it with THIS ROSTER...……………JC is bringing a philosophy, a brand...…………..so the moment he stepped foot on the Loudonville campus that was the mantra...……………………...for this group, what you are seeing is THEIR version of Mayhem (ok, now cue the laughter)…………………….
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