Quackman
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Post by Quackman on Apr 24, 2018 16:13:27 GMT -5
I would agree, however.........one disturbing thing that we saw from him this year was just terrible on court decisions, and it occurred every single game.........he should have made the sophomore jump, since he was basically a starter as a frosh with that very good senior laden group of 1000 pt scorers...........but then again, maybe his deficiencies were hidden more on that team since he wasn't asked to do as much..........this is why I feel he can be a role player at best, coming off the bench, but not a guy to grab starter minutes........... Has anyone made the sophomore jump under Jimmy? Ogunyemi is all I can think of and I don't think it was brilliant coaching by Jimmy that led to his improvement, just time to grow into his frame. And even he peaked as a junior. I think it is tough to judge the development of any of these kids until we see them with a coach capable of developing them into better basketball players. Bisping certainly made a huge jump from freshman to soph years. Wright consistently got better year over year (and was having a huge Jr. year before he got hurt) Shivers showed enough as a freshman that, put in the right role, that he could be a good to very good maac player. Obviously he struggled this year ... much of it had to do with his confidence. The bum leg didn't help much either. |
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Post by greenblood on Apr 24, 2018 17:17:11 GMT -5
Bisping and Wright had basketball coaches as fathers...for real
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Apr 25, 2018 11:47:28 GMT -5
Has anyone made the sophomore jump under Jimmy? Ogunyemi is all I can think of and I don't think it was brilliant coaching by Jimmy that led to his improvement, just time to grow into his frame. And even he peaked as a junior. I think it is tough to judge the development of any of these kids until we see them with a coach capable of developing them into better basketball players. Bisping certainly made a huge jump from freshman to soph years. Wright consistently got better year over year (and was having a huge Jr. year before he got hurt) Shivers showed enough as a freshman that, put in the right role, that he could be a good to very good maac player. Obviously he struggled this year ... much of it had to do with his confidence. The bum leg didn't help much either. Jimmy wasn't there for Bisping's freshman year. Bisping was there for four years with Jimmy and the argument can certainly be made that his first year was his best with the .517 FG%. When Marquis stepped on the court as a freshman I had no doubt that he would be a MAAC player of the year and potentially more than once. He never improved like you would expect under a competent coach and didn't reach those heights. Shivers was asked this year to take on the role of trying to bail the team out at the end of the shot clock, it was not a role he was good at and he never should have been put in that position. I'm not ready to assume that Shivers or anyone on the roster right now stinks because we haven't seen what they can do with competent coaching. Who knows what some of these guys might be able to do if put in a position to succeed instead of to fail. |
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Quackman
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Post by Quackman on Apr 25, 2018 11:59:40 GMT -5
Bisping certainly made a huge jump from freshman to soph years. Wright consistently got better year over year (and was having a huge Jr. year before he got hurt) Shivers showed enough as a freshman that, put in the right role, that he could be a good to very good maac player. Obviously he struggled this year ... much of it had to do with his confidence. The bum leg didn't help much either. Jimmy wasn't there for Bisping's freshman year. Bisping was there for four years with Jimmy and the argument can certainly be made that his first year was his best with the .517 FG%. When Marquis stepped on the court as a freshman I had no doubt that he would be a MAAC player of the year and potentially more than once. He never improved like you would expect under a competent coach and didn't reach those heights. Shivers was asked this year to take on the role of trying to bail the team out at the end of the shot clock, it was not a role he was good at and he never should have been put in that position. I'm not ready to assume that Shivers or anyone on the roster right now stinks because we haven't seen what they can do with competent coaching. Who knows what some of these guys might be able to do if put in a position to succeed instead of to fail. Well, if Mitch was fired in March and JP was hired in March, handled off season workouts, coached the team on a trip abroad and the preseason practices, then wouldn't the development shown by Bisping be, at least in part, due to the coaching he received from JP and his staff? At least a little? Disagree on Wright, he did improve dramatically from Freshman to Sr season and was on path to be a 1st team all maac player as a Jr before the injury. Should have been 1st team as a Sr. I get that JP was a failed experiment and that there is plenty to complain about during his tenure. But, that doesn't mean he didn't see some successes during his time in Loudonville. Giving him credit for things he did okay with (years 1 and 3, development of Bisping, Wright, Long and JO ...), doesn't diminish the fact that his teams underperformed in years 4 and 5, struggled with chemistry, saw turnover etc. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. |
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rickyp
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Post by rickyp on Apr 25, 2018 12:07:53 GMT -5
Look I'm not going to throw stones at a player.But it always seems people think the development or lack of was contributed to JP and staff.Some guys don't do the work also to improve there games.The extra work when your not with the coach.I've never depended on a coach to develop my kids.I did it myself be it researching drills or workouts.But most of it came from them the want too.One thing about working out you have to know what your working on not just working out.I think that's why players make a leap the next year and forth.Putting in the work and knowing what type of work to put in.But that's just my opinion buy it's also what you đź‘€.JMO
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Post by greenblood on Apr 25, 2018 12:15:56 GMT -5
Ricky you just made my point. Bisping, Wright and JO put the work in to improve....ON THEIR OWN...two with their fathers and one with his high school coach whose brother in law is a former player and now NBA scout...
So....JP and CO had NOTHING to do with that. Period.
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rickyp
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Post by rickyp on Apr 25, 2018 13:42:06 GMT -5
You right because with these stupid ncaa rules restricting time you can work with a player.How it makes sense is stupid.But with anything in life what you put in is what you get.Success doesn't come by just sitting on your rear-end in sports.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2018 8:26:01 GMT -5
Ricky you just made my point. Bisping, Wright and JO put the work in to improve....ON THEIR OWN...two with their fathers and one with his high school coach whose brother in law is a former player and now NBA scout... So....JP and CO had NOTHING to do with that. Period. Honestly, I know they did work and improved in some areas but talent was talent in their cases. Aside from Bisping getting a bit tougher on the boards and Wright learning to make threes...there wasn't much change in the games of these three players from their high school skills. Bisping played out on the perimeter a lot in HS and only averaged 7 or 8 boards. His HS team had horrible guards so he had to go out to the ball instead of getting fed the ball. I watched some of their games. He had to do everything for that team. Perhaps the only difference in his game was where he was able to play within the team scope in HS vs. college. JO could always do everything he did. He was never a great rebounder and never became one. I remember the game at the TUC vs. Umass in Bisping's frosh year. He made some quick pivot, step thru move on the interior in traffic...and I was like...that's the best post move of the year. His talent was always there. I was never down on him after his frosh year. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2018 9:43:24 GMT -5
Bisping's rise was severely hampered by PW's steadfast resistance to giving him minutes - probably the source of most of the staff frustration with him - Tobin probably has a much smaller tongue after his time with Mitch, having to continually bite it in deference to his "boss!"
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Post by playerparentcoach on Apr 26, 2018 20:59:47 GMT -5
would it be safe to say that Shivers is staying put................with the surgery, not sure another school is interested in picking up a player dealing with that scenario.................of course, not knowing the roster, yet he cannot or should not be expected to log starter type minutes...........if he does, then we are in big trouble.............imho........... Shivers is happy with the new coach and he loves Siena. He was only leaving if Patsos was coming back. |
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Post by playerparentcoach on Apr 26, 2018 21:03:51 GMT -5
this report about his injury might help explain his inconsistent play throughout the season. It certainly didn't help matters. I would agree, however.........one disturbing thing that we saw from him this year was just terrible on court decisions, and it occurred every single game.........he should have made the sophomore jump, since he was basically a starter as a frosh with that very good senior laden group of 1000 pt scorers...........but then again, maybe his deficiencies were hidden more on that team since he wasn't asked to do as much..........this is why I feel he can be a role player at best, coming off the bench, but not a guy to grab starter minutes........... He was the leading scorer after Nico was run off. Then only played 1 min in the tournament game. Patsos made him look inconsistent with the yanking and sitting on the bench so much. He was also a victim of the obsurb behavior by Patsos that came out in the investigation. We will see the real Shivers while playing for a real coach going forward |
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Post by playerparentcoach on Apr 26, 2018 21:10:15 GMT -5
You right because with these stupid ncaa rules restricting time you can work with a player.How it makes sense is stupid.But with anything in life what you put in is what you get.Success doesn't come by just sitting on your rear-end in sports. Student athletes were being abused by college coaches before the rules were changed. There were 2 a days going on during the school year and 3 a days during the break. Now it is regulated for the benefit of the players. Individual workouts with small groups replaces some of that. Along with some workouts without the coaching staff that is not counted. Every player is expected to workout on their own. Good coaches send players home with a workout they are expected to do on their own. The serious players that want to get better do the work. But no matter how much improvement you return with if you don't get the PT....nor are allowed to make mistakes without getting yanked you won't improve. |
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Post by great10110 on Apr 26, 2018 21:11:57 GMT -5
I would agree, however.........one disturbing thing that we saw from him this year was just terrible on court decisions, and it occurred every single game.........he should have made the sophomore jump, since he was basically a starter as a frosh with that very good senior laden group of 1000 pt scorers...........but then again, maybe his deficiencies were hidden more on that team since he wasn't asked to do as much..........this is why I feel he can be a role player at best, coming off the bench, but not a guy to grab starter minutes........... He was the leading scorer after Nico was run off. Then only played 1 min in the tournament game. Patsos made him look inconsistent with the yanking and sitting on the bench so much. He was also a victim of the obsurb behavior by Patsos that came out in the investigation. We will see the real Shivers while playing for a real coach going forward Seriously? Shivers was horrible this year. Couldn’t defend, couldn’t score. Dumb mistakes over and over again. He looked like Maurice White 2.0 out there this year. Let him go d2. Team won 8 games. 90 percent of these guys are d2 talent. Clean out and start fresh. |
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Post by playerparentcoach on Apr 26, 2018 21:16:22 GMT -5
He was the leading scorer after Nico was run off. Then only played 1 min in the tournament game. Patsos made him look inconsistent with the yanking and sitting on the bench so much. He was also a victim of the obsurb behavior by Patsos that came out in the investigation. We will see the real Shivers while playing for a real coach going forward Seriously? Shivers was horrible this year. Couldn’t defend, couldn’t score. Dumb mistakes over and over again. He looked like Maurice White 2.0 out there this year. Let him go d2. Team won 8 games. 90 percent of these guys are d2 talent. Clean out and start fresh. Don't forget the great games he had and the fact that he was the leading scorer. The kid can play. He is a big guard that can get to the basket and shoot 3's. He is also a solid perimeter defender. He played without confidence due to the bullying from his coach |
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Post by ballermom21 on Apr 26, 2018 23:04:24 GMT -5
Seriously? Shivers was horrible this year. Couldn’t defend, couldn’t score. Dumb mistakes over and over again. He looked like Maurice White 2.0 out there this year. Let him go d2. Team won 8 games. 90 percent of these guys are d2 talent. Clean out and start fresh. Don't forget the great games he had and the fact that he was the leading scorer. The kid can play. He is a big guard that can get to the basket and shoot 3's. He is also a solid perimeter defender. He played without confidence due to the bullying from his coach And a ongoing injury!!! |
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