sky
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Post by sky on Jan 14, 2018 20:28:24 GMT -5
The problem is how do we get them to stay 4 years... More correctly, to recruit players that the coach allows to stay for four years.... I stand corrected |
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gorvy
Associate Head Coach
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Post by gorvy on Jan 14, 2018 20:30:31 GMT -5
exactly on the qualifiers and I’ll add that jucos often disrupt the chemistry of teams, not necessarily because they are bad kids but because they only have two years to stamp their role. For all of Iona’s success they still have not won on the national stage like we have. We have won and can win again with four year kids. Academic exceptions have been made for years so that excuse sailed a long time ago. While I see what Gorvy is saying you don't always need a JUCO stud looking to go to the NBA. It takes 9(ahem) work but what if there is a mature JUCO true PG out there with a great A/To who could come in and spell Penn? I'd have that than a soon and another freshman next year. Same thing might be possible for a wing or forward. The key is not only the skill it's a fit to the culture and style if play. Therein lies the problem...we currently have a rather undefined culture and style if play that is consistent. At least at this point with the group they all seem to want to be a team. . I’m with you on this as an exception just wouldn’t want the whole team built like this. I’m more against the transfers, about 80 percent of the time historically they don’t work out at Siena and end up costing a ton of money. |
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Post by SaintsFan on Jan 15, 2018 8:48:02 GMT -5
Maybe it's because christian values and free market capitalism don't mix. When things aren't working in the business world you cut bait as soon as it is identified and move on. In the business world no way in hell does Buonaguro get that job. And that would also have preempted this hire. Oil and vinegar just don't mix Mitch and JP got hired because of Christian values? Yes. Buonaguro got another chance as a head coach and that should Never have occurred. Proof is the result. And had Buonaguro not been hired, patsos most likely wouldnt be here. |
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Post by greengold4ever on Jan 15, 2018 9:37:06 GMT -5
Mitch and JP got hired because of Christian values? Yes. Buonaguro got another chance as a head coach and that should Never have occurred. Proof is the result. And had Buonaguro not been hired, patsos most likely wouldnt be here. SF, you gotta stop with this Mitch should have never been hired stuff...................for the school, at "that time", it made the most sense............they were coming off a spectacular run under Fran (had a 38 game home winning streak), and Mitch was the top assistant, and a big part of that success..........so in an effort to keep the transition smooth, and "hopefully" keep things moving forward, they did opt for hiring him, plus he had the blessing of the remaining players..................that's not to say I don't hear you with the concerns you raised on his past struggles for him as a head coach (although he did get Stags to 2 dances), and the long gap since he had been a head coach of a program............so they pulled the rug out from under him after 3 yrs, that was a fair assessment given the circumstances that showed he was no longer capable of running a program as the top guy................some can claim they knew from the start that Mitch would fail, but they might be the same ones to say the exact same thing about Fran as well (who had a few question marks coming into Loudonville).......the issue has MORE to do with the hiring of JP after they got rid of Mitch, nobody on this board can honestly say they thought he would be a good fit, and I can say that because nobody looked at him during his time at Loyola and could say "man, I really want that guy leading our program"......most fans that I know thought he was just a crazed lunatic, with eccentric/weird philosophies, who was rarely seen coaching on the sidelines and rather just berating a player constantly on the bench or in the huddle (instead of actually coaching his team during a time out)........the hire after Mitch is real root of the problem, imho............ |
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Post by SaintsFan on Jan 15, 2018 10:08:45 GMT -5
Yes. Buonaguro got another chance as a head coach and that should Never have occurred. Proof is the result. And had Buonaguro not been hired, patsos most likely wouldnt be here. SF, you gotta stop with this Mitch should have never been hired stuff...................for the school, at "that time", it made the most sense............they were coming off a spectacular run under Fran (had a 38 game home winning streak), and Mitch was the top assistant, and a big part of that success..........so in an effort to keep the transition smooth, and "hopefully" keep things moving forward, they did opt for hiring him, plus he had the blessing of the remaining players..................that's not to say I don't hear you with the concerns you raised on his past struggles for him as a head coach (although he did get Stags to 2 dances), and the long gap since he had been a head coach of a program............so they pulled the rug out from under him after 3 yrs, that was a fair assessment given the circumstances that showed he was no longer capable of running a program as the top guy................some can claim they knew from the start that Mitch would fail, but they might be the same ones to say the exact same thing about Fran as well (who had a few question marks coming into Loudonville).......the issue has MORE to do with the hiring of JP after they got rid of Mitch, nobody on this board can honestly say they thought he would be a good fit, and I can say that because nobody looked at him during his time at Loyola and could say "man, I really want that guy leading our program"......most fans that I know thought he was just a crazed lunatic, with eccentric/weird philosophies, who was rarely seen coaching on the sidelines and rather just berating a player constantly on the bench or in the huddle (instead of actually coaching his team during a time out)........the hire after Mitch is real root of the problem, imho............ You can make all the excuses in the world but the simple truth is the man got fired for many of the same reasons he was fired at Fairfield. Speak to him and then envision him coming into your living room and selling your son's future... You can't. I said it even before he was hired and I'll say it again. It will go down as the worst hire in siena history... And it did. The man comes across as a dull used car salesman. Whoever thought that was the right move is a retard. |
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Post by greengold4ever on Jan 15, 2018 10:22:25 GMT -5
SF, you gotta stop with this Mitch should have never been hired stuff...................for the school, at "that time", it made the most sense............they were coming off a spectacular run under Fran (had a 38 game home winning streak), and Mitch was the top assistant, and a big part of that success..........so in an effort to keep the transition smooth, and "hopefully" keep things moving forward, they did opt for hiring him, plus he had the blessing of the remaining players..................that's not to say I don't hear you with the concerns you raised on his past struggles for him as a head coach (although he did get Stags to 2 dances), and the long gap since he had been a head coach of a program............so they pulled the rug out from under him after 3 yrs, that was a fair assessment given the circumstances that showed he was no longer capable of running a program as the top guy................some can claim they knew from the start that Mitch would fail, but they might be the same ones to say the exact same thing about Fran as well (who had a few question marks coming into Loudonville).......the issue has MORE to do with the hiring of JP after they got rid of Mitch, nobody on this board can honestly say they thought he would be a good fit, and I can say that because nobody looked at him during his time at Loyola and could say "man, I really want that guy leading our program"......most fans that I know thought he was just a crazed lunatic, with eccentric/weird philosophies, who was rarely seen coaching on the sidelines and rather just berating a player constantly on the bench or in the huddle (instead of actually coaching his team during a time out)........the hire after Mitch is real root of the problem, imho............ You can make all the excuses in the world but the simple truth is the man got fired for many of the same reasons he was fired at Fairfield. Speak to him and then envision him coming into your living room and selling your son's future... You can't. I said it even before he was hired and I'll say it again. It will go down as the worst hire in siena history... And it did. The man comes across as a dull used car salesman. Whoever thought that was the right move is a retard. Beyer was worse than Mitch, and even at that, he was following Deane being on his staff..............he is now an NBA assistant coach and has been for a number of yrs if you can believe that...............also Lanier is the top assistant at Tennessee right now......... |
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Post by SaintsFan on Jan 15, 2018 10:33:36 GMT -5
You can make all the excuses in the world but the simple truth is the man got fired for many of the same reasons he was fired at Fairfield. Speak to him and then envision him coming into your living room and selling your son's future... You can't. I said it even before he was hired and I'll say it again. It will go down as the worst hire in siena history... And it did. The man comes across as a dull used car salesman. Whoever thought that was the right move is a retard. Beyer was worse than Mitch, and even at that, he was following Deane being on his staff..............he is now an NBA assistant coach and has been for a number of yrs if you can believe that...............also Lanier is the top assistant at Tennessee right now......... i can believe that certain coaches are better assistants than head coaches. |
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Post by SaintsFan on Jan 15, 2018 10:36:58 GMT -5
You can make all the excuses in the world but the simple truth is the man got fired for many of the same reasons he was fired at Fairfield. Speak to him and then envision him coming into your living room and selling your son's future... You can't. I said it even before he was hired and I'll say it again. It will go down as the worst hire in siena history... And it did. The man comes across as a dull used car salesman. Whoever thought that was the right move is a retard. Beyer was worse than Mitch, and even at that, he was following Deane being on his staff..............he is now an NBA assistant coach and has been for a number of yrs if you can believe that...............also Lanier is the top assistant at Tennessee right now......... Beyer was not worse than mitch PURELY based on timing. Siena had a chance to remain nationally relevant after McCaffrey. They chose otherwise. They chose a coach who had been fired for numerous issues that would prevent a re-hire as head coach pretty much anywhere AND has the personality of a door knob. |
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james
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Post by james on Jan 15, 2018 10:38:53 GMT -5
Hiring Mitch made absolutely no sense whatsoever.Rob Lanier might have been our best recruiter ever at Siena but his coaching style was very appealing to a fan as he never ,ever played an up-tempo type of game which reflected his recruits.Maybe he learned his lesson the first time around and if he ever gets another chance could be succesful.GO SAINTS!
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james
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Post by james on Jan 15, 2018 10:40:28 GMT -5
that would be not very appealing concerning my last entry!
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Post by SaintsFan on Jan 15, 2018 10:44:04 GMT -5
Hiring Mitch made absolutely no sense whatsoever.Rob Lanier might have been our best recruiter ever at Siena but his coaching style was very appealing to a fan as he never ,ever played an up-tempo type of game which reflected his recruits.Maybe he learned his lesson the first time around and if he ever gets another chance could be succesful.GO SAINTS! actually i would argue that Lanier recruited plenty of runners (Haddix excluded and one of my least favorites  . He just didnt know HOW to. Lanier literally tried to bring BCS basketball to Siena when he needed to bring the athletes he brought and RUN them. He simply didnt know how. FANTASTIC recruiter. None better in the history of the school. Second closest was McCaffery. and most dont know... outside of McCaffrey... Lanier's Tommy Mitchell was closest to the big time. He nearly made an NBA roster multiple times. He was a guy who needed the running game here at Siena but never got it. One of my all time favorites. |
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james
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Post by james on Jan 15, 2018 10:51:00 GMT -5
I wanted to say his recruits were an up-tempo group of players!
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Post by greengold4ever on Jan 15, 2018 10:51:36 GMT -5
Hiring Mitch made absolutely no sense whatsoever.Rob Lanier might have been our best recruiter ever at Siena but his coaching style was very appealing to a fan as he never ,ever played an up-tempo type of game which reflected his recruits.Maybe he learned his lesson the first time around and if he ever gets another chance could be succesful.GO SAINTS! sorry, but as stated, hiring Mitch at the time made the most sense for the school (reasons listed above in prior post plus he got Fran's endorsement which meant ALOT at the time no matter what any of us thought).........that is why they chose Mitch thinking things would stay status quo..........of course, it turned out bad but the reasons for him "to them" out-weighed the negative from their perspective.........they took a chance and it crapped out, but they did the right thing within 3 yrs............yet getting back to where they wanted to go after Mitch was not done correctly, therein lies the incompetency of the JP hire and where we are today........... |
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CellarRat
Assistant Coach
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Post by CellarRat on Jan 15, 2018 10:54:03 GMT -5
So you want to fire a guy today and the ad that have 40 years of experience between them for $1.5 million plus and replace them with somebody with no head coaching experience at all? Sounds like a brilliant plan. The time to gamble on a high major assistant was when mccaffery left. The stakes are much higher now and Siena needs to make a slam dunk hire when it is ready. I don’t know the answer, but this is a good argument. The Mitch and JP hire certainly put Siena in a bad spot. |
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Post by SaintsFan on Jan 15, 2018 11:03:00 GMT -5
Hiring Mitch made absolutely no sense whatsoever.Rob Lanier might have been our best recruiter ever at Siena but his coaching style was very appealing to a fan as he never ,ever played an up-tempo type of game which reflected his recruits.Maybe he learned his lesson the first time around and if he ever gets another chance could be succesful.GO SAINTS! sorry, but as stated, hiring Mitch at the time made the most sense for the school (reasons listed above in prior post plus he got Fran's endorsement which meant ALOT at the time no matter what any of us thought).........that is why they chose Mitch thinking things would stay status quo..........of course, it turned out bad but the reasons for him "to them" out-weighed the negative from their perspective.........they took a chance and it crapped out, but they did the right thing within 3 yrs............yet getting back to where they wanted to go after Mitch was not done correctly, therein lies the incompetency of the JP hire and where we are today........... - A) hiring a coach that had been fired as a head coach (IN YOUR OWN CONFERENCE) before - stupid - B) Mitch's personality was a sure failure as the face of the program - C) NO WAY IN HELL is Fran going to sell out a coach who gave his all to him. This was a clear case of failure to do due diligence by Siena. Siena was taken advantage of to give an aging man a last ditch chance. Wrong time, wrong place for second chances. Why in the world do you think NO OTHER SCHOOL gave him a second chance in the decades in between. You have arguably THE most professional coach (Hewitt is right there) to have EVER coached at the school and joe "the doorknob" used car salesman and somehow you convince yourselves it is going to be "the status quo"  ? you know what... maac fans might be on to something saying Siena and its fans are the most delusional. go have a conversation with mitch. One single two minute conversation. Then come back and talk to me about how it was the right decision at the time. Idiocy. The PATSOS hire can be argued to have siena desperately seeking a known commodity and attempt to right the titanic with the hire. (and no i didnt like this hire either.) But at least it can be understood to some extent even i i dont agree with it. With Buonaguro, NOTHING WHATSOEVER told me that it was even remotely having a chance of working out. Tony called the Patsos hire to a T. Mediocrity at best with a once every few years competing to be in the top 3 or 4. |
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. He just didnt know HOW to. Lanier literally tried to bring BCS basketball to Siena when he needed to bring the athletes he brought and RUN them. He simply didnt know how. FANTASTIC recruiter. None better in the history of the school. Second closest was McCaffery.
? you know what... maac fans might be on to something saying Siena and its fans are the most delusional.