hoopdad
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Post by hoopdad on Jan 14, 2018 11:59:53 GMT -5
Maybe it’s not Darg. Back in the early 2000’s when Gina had the Latvian connection, the Siena women’s team was out drawing every MAAC men’s team except Marist. Anyway fast forward 16 years - Siena women have 1 winning season in last 15 years with good chance this year makes it 1 winning season in last 16 years- they draw peanuts every game and are major drain on school’s revenue stream On men’s side after St Fran’s run 8 years ago—Siena has one winning regular season record in last 8 years. What gets me- who approves these contracts? Ali has 1 winning season in her 6 years here- yet she is signed thru 2020? On men’s side Jimmy Patsos is a career 500 coach- he has 1 winning regular season in 5 years here- why the urgency to extend him a few years ago when he had his single winning regular season? It’s not like he was going to be a hot commodity. In Jimbo’s case all the added security did for Jimmy is make him want to vacation even more in the off season. My question is it Siena College that time has passed by or the AD? Seems to me these long term guaranteed contracts are really tying Siena’s hands and costing them valuable revenue. It’s not like these coaches are being paid chump change. I mean maybe it’s not a big thing since Siena is at all time high with corporate donations, Saints alive contributions is higher than ever—and we all see announced attendance at every game this year 5K to 6K – must be correct right? So is it the school or the AD? Or is no big thing, just Siena men’s and women’s team are in a 10 year down cycle? Something isn’t working for sure The basketball program is a mismanaged asset. College needs to sit down and figure out what they want, new blood is probably the answer. Look what Mark Benson is doing at UA. D’Arg’s time has come and gone he’s just another complacent cog like our headcoach. HQ is claiming that that he is recruiting harder than ever before in order to change around the current Saints misfortunes. Would love to hear from D'Arg what he is doing to turn around the program. A fair question to be asked and answered by him.
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rpize24
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Post by rpize24 on Jan 14, 2018 12:06:16 GMT -5
So you want to fire a guy today and the ad that have 40 years of experience between them for $1.5 million plus and replace them with somebody with no head coaching experience at all? Sounds like a brilliant plan. The time to gamble on a high major assistant was when mccaffery left. The stakes are much higher now and Siena needs to make a slam dunk hire when it is ready. I see very little evidence that we could land a good experienced DI Head Coach. Right now I don't see us going after an experienced head coach but rather a young and energetic high major assistant coach who is ready to not only win but win now. With that being said depending on how the season finishes up it may be difficult to land someone who wants to win immediately as there's a chance that this will have been a BRUTAL year. If we can by chance land the next joe Pasternack I will be all for it. 8 years is long enough( too long) and hopefully whoever the head coach is next year can get us back to the top of the MAAC and more importantly back to the NCAA tournament.
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Post by sienafanallyearlong2 on Jan 14, 2018 12:10:39 GMT -5
Papi and gorvy, I am sure you guys would both be fine if we moved back to playing in the ARC.
I would not, just as I am not for settling either for mediocrity as apparently you both are.
Longevity means nothing. We are not a state run agency.
Results and drive are more important.
Success on a consistent basis; along with longevity means everything.
Otherwise you give the young, the hungry, a chance to get to that point. How else do they get the opportunity to get those wins otherwise.
You can never know you have a slam dunk until it is a slam dunk.
We should have had a slam dunk after Fran or after Mitch but we didn't either time.
It's only a slam dunk if after the case, you can look back and say, ya, we made a good hire.
We didn't know who Fran would be until after Fran turned into what he turned out to be. He was no slam dunk coming in.
As in this case, cleaning house is sometimes needed.
Why accept mediocrity when we have a program with so much upside potential?
We are much, much more than a 3 yr stint.
As far as I am aware, we are the only team in MAAC history to win an NCAA Game, let alone get to an NIT Semi-Final, and we have done it on a number of different occasions.
We have historically been in the Top 50-75 when it comes to attendacne figures amongst all schools, including Power 5 Schools.
We play in a 15,000 seat arena that on a regular basis would be half full.
We are the only game in town with the ability to draw 5,000-10,000 fans for a college hoop game.
Ya, I would definately fire both the AD and the HC today. It is the best choice to do. Not doing anything like you two want is the worse choice.
Let's start getting some Siena pride back and stop settling.
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rpize24
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Post by rpize24 on Jan 14, 2018 12:21:07 GMT -5
There's no doubt that we should've been able to land a slam dunk coach after Fran left but what's done is done. Rather than looking into the past and wondering "what if?" we should be looking forward to the future as it seems we definitely have some solid pieces on the team. Is there still time for us to get back to the days when we were a borderline top 25 team? Absolutely. The next Xavier or butler? Perhaps. Will we? That remains to be seen but if this year winds up being a complete disaster then I am all for a coaching change. Let's see how the rest of the season plays out before really pinpointing potential coaches for next year. That's not to say I haven't looked but let's see how the season winds up before making final judgments
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Post by Tony on Jan 14, 2018 12:35:49 GMT -5
Firing a coach midseason is not a good plan. Firing an AD on a whim without the time to replace him (AD searches take 2-3 months, by then many of the better candidates for the HC vacancy are gone) is suicide. If we are looking for a complete overhaul with replacing Darg, the way it works is he retires effective the end of the academic year (end of June). We begin a search and the new AD comes in July 1. Has a year to fix the things behind the scenes and get acclimated to the school and it’s coaches, and then he can fire JP after next year if the team doesn’t have an awesome year. That said I don’t think D’Arg is realistically leaving. Like I said, the College likes him a lot and as has been referenced earlier on this board, fundraising through Saints Alive is at a high. Combine that with the facility upgrades he’s been able to implement recently (practice facility, ARC renovations, weight room, baseball field upgrade) and I don’t think there’s much of a chance that he gets pushed out. D’Arg will be involved in this hire, as should a private search firm and some sort of committee. As Tony has said several times, priests can’t be making all the basketball decisions, which is why this is a big test for Brother Ed. He has to allow D’Arg and the rest of a committee to make a decision on a new coach that will represent the school well and win lots of games. I’m going to disagree with this statement. Darg is hard worker and respected for that. Many people inside Siena however know he isn’t a basketball man. Given the money Siena puts into men’s and woman’s team ( if the numbers are right) then Siena is getting a horrible return on its investment. At a game earlier in season I was sitting with a very high powered Booster- Darg was crowing how good a young team we had to booster- he wasn’t 2 feet out of ear shot when said booster called him an asshole. I don’t think he is as well respected inside Siena as you portray. You’d have to be a blind man to know Darg isn’t a huge part of the problem I agree not good to fire a coach mid-season ( especially one owed a ton of money) Personally I say kick Darg upstairs to just his VP position. Bring in a new AD that knows basketball and let the new AD give goals and milestones to both Jimmy an Ajax. Maybe new AD can get Jimmy on right path. Maybe would make some of the fans happy knowing Jimmy is reporting to an actual basketball man - save Siena a year of the buy out. My biggest fear is Siena’s fires Jimmy and Darg makes next hire—no thanks I think my 9 year old grandson knows more about basketball than Darg does( remember he is a SID by trade)
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Post by Tony on Jan 14, 2018 12:37:04 GMT -5
The basketball program is a mismanaged asset. College needs to sit down and figure out what they want, new blood is probably the answer. Look what Mark Benson is doing at UA. D’Arg’s time has come and gone he’s just another complacent cog like our headcoach. HQ is claiming that that he is recruiting harder than ever before in order to change around the current Saints misfortunes. Would love to hear from D'Arg what he is doing to turn around the program. A fair question to be asked and answered by him. +1000 I would love to see that
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Post by MTS on Jan 14, 2018 13:08:00 GMT -5
I don’t think time has past Siena by just that the administration is incompetent. They got lucky Hewitt and Fran and basically screwed up the rest - not counting Deane who was hired in a completely different time.
D’Arg is one part of it but not the only one. People have been working in the Athletic department for too long. Change is good.
My question is who will make the final decision if Jimmy is fired in March? Doubtful it’s all on D’Arg or Brother Ed? A simple vote by the BOTs or enough boosters demanding a change.
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Post by MTS on Jan 14, 2018 13:11:49 GMT -5
At the time I don’t think either extension was that bad. After year 1 to win a postseason tournament and bring the excitement back to Siena basketball, a small extension to give a raise and show of confidence was the right move. The second extension was 50-50, Siena had one of the bigger win turnarounds in D1 despite being without Marquis Wright for most of the year. What got me was that they were deliberating about giving an extension and Darg folded like a cheap suit as soon as that dumb Texas Tech rumor popped up. Siena’s struggles are fairly emblematic of the entire MAAC over the last 8 years. Programs simply haven’t hired the right coaches. Maker at Marist is a dud. Same with Sydney Johnson at Fairfield and Chris Casey at Niagara. Patsos, Baggett, Dunne, and Weatherspoon are all .500 coaches who occasionally will jump into the top 3 and occasionally bottom out. Masiello hasn’t done anything since those 2 NCAA bids, struggling on the recruiting trail too. King Rice never won the big game with one of the best rosters in MAAC history and his program seems to be going back quickly to what it was before. That leaves Quinnipiac with Dunleavy and Iona with Cluess. At best there are 6 guys who deserve to have MAAC coaching jobs in that group. Siena is fine long-term. It’s a place you can win a lot of college basketball games. But with the school in some financial troubles and the athletic programs trying to hold onto the success of 2008-2010, we have become super conservative. Darg as an AD has virtually gone into the same mode that a JP offense goes into when it has a lead with 6 minutes to play.... just stand around and play not to lose. Keeping JP after this season would be yet another example of this. It would be accepting that the previous 4 seasons were good enough to give him a pass for this year. While they’ve been solid, they haven’t been good enough and they haven’t shown the program to be on an upward trajectory. If the administration is serious about bringing Siena back to being a top tier MAAC team year in and year out, then they need to make a move and they need to go out and get a young high-major assistant who will recruit his tail off and give him an assistant coaching budget that will allow in to go get guys that help build that winning culture. CBI extension I could buy I guess but why two more after the 21-13 season and semifinal exit? Administration should’ve waited to see what Patsos was going to do with the four seniors and who he signed to reload. If they did that Patsos has one year left and there’s absolutely no doubt he’s finished.
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olddave
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Post by olddave on Jan 14, 2018 13:26:39 GMT -5
Firing a coach midseason is not a good plan. Firing an AD on a whim without the time to replace him (AD searches take 2-3 months, by then many of the better candidates for the HC vacancy are gone) is suicide. If we are looking for a complete overhaul with replacing Darg, the way it works is he retires effective the end of the academic year (end of June). We begin a search and the new AD comes in July 1. Has a year to fix the things behind the scenes and get acclimated to the school and it’s coaches, and then he can fire JP after next year if the team doesn’t have an awesome year. That said I don’t think D’Arg is realistically leaving. Like I said, the College likes him a lot and as has been referenced earlier on this board, fundraising through Saints Alive is at a high. Combine that with the facility upgrades he’s been able to implement recently (practice facility, ARC renovations, weight room, baseball field upgrade) and I don’t think there’s much of a chance that he gets pushed out. D’Arg will be involved in this hire, as should a private search firm and some sort of committee. As Tony has said several times, priests can’t be making all the basketball decisions, which is why this is a big test for Brother Ed. He has to allow D’Arg and the rest of a committee to make a decision on a new coach that will represent the school well and win lots of games. I’m going to disagree with this statement. Darg is hard worker and respected for that. Many people inside Siena however know he isn’t a basketball man. Given the money Siena puts into men’s and woman’s team ( if the numbers are right) then Siena is getting a horrible return on its investment. At a game earlier in season I was sitting with a very high powered Booster- Darg was crowing how good a young team we had to booster- he wasn’t 2 feet out of ear shot when said booster called him an asshole. I don’t think he is as well respected inside Siena as you portray. You’d have to be a blind man to know Darg isn’t a huge part of the problem I agree not good to fire a coach mid-season ( especially one owed a ton of money) Personally I say kick Darg upstairs to just his VP position. Bring in a new AD that knows basketball and let the new AD give goals and milestones to both Jimmy an Ajax. Maybe new AD can get Jimmy on right path. Maybe would make some of the fans happy knowing Jimmy is reporting to an actual basketball man - save Siena a year of the buy out. My biggest fear is Siena’s fires Jimmy and Darg makes next hire—no thanks I think my 9 year old grandson knows more about basketball than Darg does( remember he is a SID by trade) College like D'Arg? Not sure where most work here, but in the private sector, liking someone doesn't count, performance does. And for those who haven't caught up yet Siena is the private sector. Change is Obviously needed to right the ship. Disagree moving D'Arg to VP position. Like throwing good money after bad. Give him a buyout pkg, thank him for his time and don't let the door hit him on the way out. OBTW same applies to JP, though more costly simple cost benefit analysis would show it would be worth the buyout. Biggest challenge to the college is the timing to both, unless it's being worked on as we all are going ballistic. Papi all you are is an hanger on who loves to tease, get the Siena fans going. It's to bad, if you actually wanted to participate legitimately you would be taken seriously not aa an disgruntled poster.
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Jan 14, 2018 14:22:07 GMT -5
So you want to fire a guy today and the ad that have 40 years of experience between them for $1.5 million plus and replace them with somebody with no head coaching experience at all? Sounds like a brilliant plan. The time to gamble on a high major assistant was when mccaffery left. The stakes are much higher now and Siena needs to make a slam dunk hire when it is ready. I see very little evidence that we could land a good experienced DI Head Coach. How did we get mccaffery?
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Post by gosaints on Jan 14, 2018 14:43:38 GMT -5
Firing a coach midseason is not a good plan. Firing an AD on a whim without the time to replace him (AD searches take 2-3 months, by then many of the better candidates for the HC vacancy are gone) is suicide. If we are looking for a complete overhaul with replacing Darg, the way it works is he retires effective the end of the academic year (end of June). We begin a search and the new AD comes in July 1. Has a year to fix the things behind the scenes and get acclimated to the school and it’s coaches, and then he can fire JP after next year if the team doesn’t have an awesome year. That said I don’t think D’Arg is realistically leaving. Like I said, the College likes him a lot and as has been referenced earlier on this board, fundraising through Saints Alive is at a high. Combine that with the facility upgrades he’s been able to implement recently (practice facility, ARC renovations, weight room, baseball field upgrade) and I don’t think there’s much of a chance that he gets pushed out. D’Arg will be involved in this hire, as should a private search firm and some sort of committee. As Tony has said several times, priests can’t be making all the basketball decisions, which is why this is a big test for Brother Ed. He has to allow D’Arg and the rest of a committee to make a decision on a new coach that will represent the school well and win lots of games. I’m going to disagree with this statement. Darg is hard worker and respected for that. Many people inside Siena however know he isn’t a basketball man. Given the money Siena puts into men’s and woman’s team ( if the numbers are right) then Siena is getting a horrible return on its investment. At a game earlier in season I was sitting with a very high powered Booster- Darg was crowing how good a young team we had to booster- he wasn’t 2 feet out of ear shot when said booster called him an asshole. I don’t think he is as well respected inside Siena as you portray. You’d have to be a blind man to know Darg isn’t a huge part of the problem I agree not good to fire a coach mid-season ( especially one owed a ton of money) Personally I say kick Darg upstairs to just his VP position. Bring in a new AD that knows basketball and let the new AD give goals and milestones to both Jimmy an Ajax. Maybe new AD can get Jimmy on right path. Maybe would make some of the fans happy knowing Jimmy is reporting to an actual basketball man - save Siena a year of the buy out. My biggest fear is Siena’s fires Jimmy and Darg makes next hire—no thanks I think my 9 year old grandson knows more about basketball than Darg does( remember he is a SID by trade) Tony seriously? Do you really believe that after 15 years of being a head coach and an Ego as big as an elephants Pastos would pay attention to a new AD? And in this day and age Siena would add a "new" AD position to the budget?
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Papi
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Post by Papi on Jan 14, 2018 15:17:31 GMT -5
Being the AD at a maac school isn't like being an AD at a major University it's more like being the AD of a big time high school.
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Jan 14, 2018 15:25:46 GMT -5
Papi and gorvy, I am sure you guys would both be fine if we moved back to playing in the ARC. I would not, just as I am not for settling either for mediocrity as apparently you both are. Longevity means nothing. We are not a state run agency. Results and drive are more important. Success on a consistent basis; along with longevity means everything. Otherwise you give the young, the hungry, a chance to get to that point. How else do they get the opportunity to get those wins otherwise. You can never know you have a slam dunk until it is a slam dunk. We should have had a slam dunk after Fran or after Mitch but we didn't either time. It's only a slam dunk if after the case, you can look back and say, ya, we made a good hire. We didn't know who Fran would be until after Fran turned into what he turned out to be. He was no slam dunk coming in. As in this case, cleaning house is sometimes needed. Why accept mediocrity when we have a program with so much upside potential? We are much, much more than a 3 yr stint. As far as I am aware, we are the only team in MAAC history to win an NCAA Game, let alone get to an NIT Semi-Final, and we have done it on a number of different occasions. We have historically been in the Top 50-75 when it comes to attendacne figures amongst all schools, including Power 5 Schools. We play in a 15,000 seat arena that on a regular basis would be half full. We are the only game in town with the ability to draw 5,000-10,000 fans for a college hoop game. Ya, I would definately fire both the AD and the HC today. It is the best choice to do. Not doing anything like you two want is the worse choice. Let's start getting some Siena pride back and stop settling. . You are way off base and obviously haven’t been paying attention to my posts. You keep posting long winded diatribes about how Siena should do this and how they should do that but offer no evidence that Siena has the ability to pay. Just saying fire everybody now (weren’t you the one telling us all earlier how this team was going to win 20 games?) but that’s easy to do. I want patsos gone asap in fact I never wanted him and openly campaigned against the hire months before it was made. But now he has 3 years left after this year and Siena has never fired a coach with more than one year of buyout. That’s going to cost about $1.2 million as far as I can tell. And you want to replace him with a coach that’s never been in control of d1 kids. So we hire that hot young assistant like Lanier who can recruit his ass off. Were you around for that hire? I didn’t want him either. What happens when we hire LLLanier and owe him 4 years too. What then, fire him and hire another one? Mccaffery was about as slam dunk as you can get. He took two loser programs and won titles within three years. These are places that require guarantee games to survive. He was a great hire. I gave you guys Gregg Marshall after he won his second title at Winthrop and no one listened. Now I’m giving you Nathan Davis. If a coach can win at two different places he’s a winner, period. So why can’t we go young experienced head coach. If it’s a money issue than we have no business paying $1.2 million now to hire an unproven assistant. Give me a proven head coach over a proven recruiter any day of the week. Btw davis was the top assistant for bucknell other NCAA teams in the 200s. Just FYI. Ps Manhattan also won a game. Lasalle too.
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Post by Tony on Jan 14, 2018 15:30:20 GMT -5
Tony seriously? Do you really believe that after 15 years of being a head coach and an Ego as big as an elephants Pastos would pay attention to a new AD? And in this day and age Siena would add a "new" AD position to the budget? Really? Of course he would listen ( to a degree) and if doesn’t listen or doesn’t meet his goals he is let go . What do you want to do fire JP pay him for next 2 years plus pay a new coach? You do know Darg is VP and AD- it was just a way to ease Darg out of the picture- I don’t care if Darg is fired, eased out , retired etc., I just want him out of picture for next hire
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Post by Tony on Jan 14, 2018 15:32:15 GMT -5
Being the AD at a maac school isn't like being an AD at a major University it's more like being the AD of a big time high school. dont talk stupid even MAAC schools athletic dept have multi million dollar budgets
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