gorvy
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 10,022
Dislikes:
|
Post by gorvy on Mar 10, 2017 21:30:44 GMT -5
How about this: = slow down the revolving door on transfers and coaching staff departures/replacements - no off court drama resulting in suspensions or 'leaves of absence' (family emergencies would be an exception) - everyone goes to class and carries an acceptable GPA - no sideline circus act - improvement in game planning and strategy - effective in game adjustments - less taking the air out of the ball when the lead is dwindling - every game counts If all of that happens, and the new recruits are truly D-1 worthy, the record should be over .500. I'd think that .650-.750 would be reachable. No worse than 3rd in conference and poised to make a run at the Championship in March without rainbow farting unicorns coming to the rescue. . I'd say if they did all that they would have a pretty decent shot at first or at least top 100. Improbable though lol.
|
|
|
Post by greenblood on Mar 10, 2017 21:39:24 GMT -5
I agree on the improbability, especially since we hear that my first expectation is likely to go up in smoke over the next few weeks.
|
|
gorvy
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 10,022
Dislikes:
|
Post by gorvy on Mar 10, 2017 21:43:51 GMT -5
And so it goes.
|
|
|
Post by billmurray on Mar 10, 2017 21:45:34 GMT -5
Let me get this right. I'm giving up on the kids because I think they may not win the league championship next year, but you support the kids because you don't think they can get to .500. I guess they should thank you for your full support. No, you didn't say "might not win the league championship". You said "improbable". In your world there is a slim if not none chance of winning, and you know this before you even know who is on the team. Way to have faith in the program, why bother even turning on the tv or going to any games next season if you don't think there is a snowballs chance in hell of the team taking first place or having a great top 100 season. The only reason coach is still around is it thinks Siena fans are satisfied with .500 and is caught in a bind on the financials. I support the kids, I just don't think coach will bring them to their potential, (proof last four years). You are the one who is always saying that coach can't shoot the free throws, make the bunnies or take wild three point shots. So in essence you are saying that you have no faith in them already, nice. Nice attempt at spin Gorvy, but you are the one who doesn't think the kids can even get to .500. I didn't say that, you did. I'm allowing some time for the kids to gell and make a push to improve during the year, if necessary. I'd be happy with a championship but I don't demand it of the kids. No spinning necessary for you, you are basically suggesting failure (<.500) is more than likely. I understand you want Patsos gone yesterday or earlier, but don't suggest that I don't support the kids because I don't demand championship or nothing. That is your criteria not mine. You are in a hole and logic is obviously not your strong suit. I suggest you stop digging.
|
|
gorvy
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 10,022
Dislikes:
|
Post by gorvy on Mar 10, 2017 22:13:31 GMT -5
No, you didn't say "might not win the league championship". You said "improbable". In your world there is a slim if not none chance of winning, and you know this before you even know who is on the team. Way to have faith in the program, why bother even turning on the tv or going to any games next season if you don't think there is a snowballs chance in hell of the team taking first place or having a great top 100 season. The only reason coach is still around is it thinks Siena fans are satisfied with .500 and is caught in a bind on the financials. I support the kids, I just don't think coach will bring them to their potential, (proof last four years). You are the one who is always saying that coach can't shoot the free throws, make the bunnies or take wild three point shots. So in essence you are saying that you have no faith in them already, nice. Nice attempt at spin Gorvy, but you are the one who doesn't think the kids can even get to .500. I didn't say that, you did. I'm allowing some time for the kids to gell and make a push to improve during the year, if necessary. I'd be happy with a championship but I don't demand it of the kids. No spinning necessary for you, you are basically suggesting failure (<.500) is more than likely. I understand you want Patsos gone yesterday or earlier, but don't suggest that I don't support the kids because I don't demand championship or nothing. That is your criteria not mine. You are in a hole and logic is obviously not your strong suit. I suggest you stop digging. Sorry, but you spin more than a ballerina doing a pirouette on a top. First you tried to change "improbable" to "might not". When that didn't work you are now changing my words to say that I don't believe the kids will get to .500. Let me say it again for the 1,000 time, I don't think the Coach will do it. Put the right different coach in there and they absolutely would. You think that all coaches are the same, without ever explaining why some coaches win and others never do. You have your opinion, and I have mine. The difference between me and you is I don't have to make sarcastic remarks or make an attack on your intelligence to make my point. That just tells me I have the facts on my side, no ballerinas required.
|
|
bigfan
Team Captain
Posts: 1,726
Dislikes:
|
Post by bigfan on Mar 10, 2017 22:21:18 GMT -5
My personal feeling is that Jimmy should get another year after next if he manages a .500 record. That is an awfully young squad he will have. This assumes that Nico stays and isn't given another sabbatical and there aren't any additional major meltdowns on the disciplinary front from either players OR staff.
I do NOT believe, however, that the school would hold him to that high a standard. My guess is he is extended if he manages at least 13 wins overall next year, also assuming the previously mentioned disciplinary success.
The fact is that there are multiple influencing factors that contribute to the decision to extend or dismiss any coach. It is possible for the team to have a losing record next year, but to still see hope (even from us) because the new kids play an exciting style, but perhaps make enough freshman mistakes to lead to said losing record.
Tony, I disagree that the school would have let him go if he had one less year on his contract after this season. I don't think the lack of discipline that was shown this year was a fireable offense when taken alongside a 12-8 third place finish in conference. My guess is they would have extended him one more year so he wouldn't be a lame duck next season.
I'll just say that I always root for the success of every season, every game and every possession. That's just how I am. I do NOT believe that Jimmy is the coach that can get us back to the glory days, but I will never root against him as long as he coaches the Saints.
|
|
bigfan
Team Captain
Posts: 1,726
Dislikes:
|
Post by bigfan on Mar 10, 2017 22:30:36 GMT -5
Just want to add - next year is total crapshoot as far as record goes - could be over .500, could be single digit wins. Land toward the bottom of that scale, and Jimmy will be gone. Then we all pray for wisdom in the hiring process.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Dislikes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2017 5:05:04 GMT -5
My personal feeling is that Jimmy should get another year after next if he manages a .500 record. That is an awfully young squad he will have. This assumes that Nico stays and isn't given another sabbatical and there aren't any additional major meltdowns on the disciplinary front from either players OR staff. I do NOT believe, however, that the school would hold him to that high a standard. My guess is he is extended if he manages at least 13 wins overall next year, also assuming the previously mentioned disciplinary success. The fact is that there are multiple influencing factors that contribute to the decision to extend or dismiss any coach. It is possible for the team to have a losing record next year, but to still see hope (even from us) because the new kids play an exciting style, but perhaps make enough freshman mistakes to lead to said losing record. Tony, I disagree that the school would have let him go if he had one less year on his contract after this season. I don't think the lack of discipline that was shown this year was a fireable offense when taken alongside a 12-8 third place finish in conference. My guess is they would have extended him one more year so he wouldn't be a lame duck next season. I'll just say that I always root for the success of every season, every game and every possession. That's just how I am. I do NOT believe that Jimmy is the coach that can get us back to the glory days, but I will never root against him as long as he coaches the Saints. This is exactly how .500 coaches hang on for an eternity. JP has been here 4 years, it's his team and he put himself into the situation where there's a "young team". Personally I think at this point in his tenure it's absolutely no excuse for not being competitive at the top of the MAAC. However, next year may be a little different. New guys, new attitudes, new assistant and a calmer JP may change things. We'll see. So, so, I'll bet they finish around .500. The Merry Go Round stays right on track.
|
|
nolesaint
Team Captain
Posts: 1,893
Dislikes:
|
Post by nolesaint on Mar 11, 2017 6:22:05 GMT -5
How about this: = slow down the revolving door on transfers and coaching staff departures/replacements - no off court drama resulting in suspensions or 'leaves of absence' (family emergencies would be an exception) - everyone goes to class and carries an acceptable GPA - no sideline circus act - improvement in game planning and strategy - effective in game adjustments - less taking the air out of the ball when the lead is dwindling - every game counts If all of that happens, and the new recruits are truly D-1 worthy, the record should be over .500. I'd think that .650-.750 would be reachable. No worse than 3rd in conference and poised to make a run at the Championship in March without rainbow farting unicorns coming to the rescue. I like your JP specific criteria. The basic principals are always key to the success of any coach. For me there has always been two more to go with the above: Every 4 year Siena player gets to enjoy at least 2 post season appearances, NCAA or NIT not the pay to play tournaments, while wearing a Siena uniform and; continued improvement of the program as a whole. Playing in the MAAC there is absolutely no reason Siena can't achieve these goals. Note to the bean counters - success based on this criteria will help the schools tight budget tremendously and will improve the applicant pool. These two facts have been proven again and again and again.
|
|
|
Post by billmurray on Mar 11, 2017 8:41:45 GMT -5
Nice attempt at spin Gorvy, but you are the one who doesn't think the kids can even get to .500. I didn't say that, you did. I'm allowing some time for the kids to gell and make a push to improve during the year, if necessary. I'd be happy with a championship but I don't demand it of the kids. No spinning necessary for you, you are basically suggesting failure (<.500) is more than likely. I understand you want Patsos gone yesterday or earlier, but don't suggest that I don't support the kids because I don't demand championship or nothing. That is your criteria not mine. You are in a hole and logic is obviously not your strong suit. I suggest you stop digging. Sorry, but you spin more than a ballerina doing a pirouette on a top. First you tried to change "improbable" to "might not". When that didn't work you are now changing my words to say that I don't believe the kids will get to .500. Let me say it again for the 1,000 time, I don't think the Coach will do it. Put the right different coach in there and they absolutely would. You think that all coaches are the same, without ever explaining why some coaches win and others never do. You have your opinion, and I have mine. The difference between me and you is I don't have to make sarcastic remarks or make an attack on your intelligence to make my point. That just tells me I have the facts on my side, no ballerinas required. I don't know you gorvy, you may be a genius but your statements still are what they are. Lacking logic. That said, we seem to disagree on the coach's immediate future. You want him gone immediately, I'm willing to give him another year. Since January the team and the coaching staff have accounted themselves well and in the tournament they accounted themselves very well in my opinion. I want championships, you want championships. Maybe the new recruits and returning players will get them with Patsos at the helm, maybe Patsos will move on and the next coach will get them to that goal no one knows. I hope they get it done next year, but I won't demand it as a condition for the coach's retention. I may get to your position after next year, but I'm willing to hope I don't. That seems to be the gist of our disagreement.
|
|
|
Post by Tony on Mar 11, 2017 9:12:30 GMT -5
No sense in arguing about it. We shall see soon enough. I think both positions are tenable and neither “lacks” logic. I think we can all agree coach will more than likely be back next year. We shall see how the general public responds to this. If ticket sales “crash” JP will be in heap of trouble. So while Bill Murray might be willing to give JP more time, if the general Siena fan isn’t, Jimmy won’t survive past next year. Its critical Jimmy sign a few impact players- I expect season ticket sales to drop between 10 and 20% with JP’s return, if team gets off to similar start as this year, the TUC will be a ghost town by next February, and once that happens ( ask Beyer, Lanier and Mitch) JP’s fate will be sealed. Even a 500 season won’t save him. Don’t forget in addition to won lost record and fan attendance ( revenue) JP isn’t well received by several influential people inside Siena due to hmm let’s say transfers and extracurricular activity – so he has 2 strikes against him before season even starts. I’ll be very surprised if JP survives past next year barring a surprisingly good season. He won’t be able to spin excuses
|
|
|
Post by billmurray on Mar 11, 2017 11:30:26 GMT -5
No sense in arguing about it. We shall see soon enough. I think both positions are tenable and neither “lacks” logic. I think we can all agree coach will more than likely be back next year. We shall see how the general public responds to this. If ticket sales “crash” JP will be in heap of trouble. So while Bill Murray might be willing to give JP more time, if the general Siena fan isn’t, Jimmy won’t survive past next year. Its critical Jimmy sign a few impact players- I expect season ticket sales to drop between 10 and 20% with JP’s return, if team gets off to similar start as this year, the TUC will be a ghost town by next February, and once that happens ( ask Beyer, Lanier and Mitch) JP’s fate will be sealed. Even a 500 season won’t save him. Don’t forget in addition to won lost record and fan attendance ( revenue) JP isn’t well received by several influential people inside Siena due to hmm let’s say transfers and extracurricular activity – so he has 2 strikes against him before season even starts. I’ll be very surprised if JP survives past next year barring a surprisingly good season. He won’t be able to spin excuses I agree Tony. Contributing impactful recruits are critical to supplement the returning group. Certainly results are the key factor. If results are good attendance should be satisfactory as well. As an aside the illogic was never about the coach returning you can argue that either way successfully. My concern was gorvy's position that I was not supporting the kids when I said the championship was improbable yet his position that the team would not likely reach .500 supported the kids.
|
|
indian82
Assistant Coach
Posts: 6,450
Dislikes:
|
Post by indian82 on Mar 11, 2017 11:57:53 GMT -5
This does not take a rocket scientist, but from the school's perspective, I think JP's fate is a matter of a combo of total W-L, end-of-year performance (i.e last month and tournament results) and attendance (also throw in off-court demeanors like xfers, academics, etc). I can't say how those get apportioned per percentages, but attendance probably takes precedence and obviously that depends on the other factors. I will say that the first 2 months of the season will go a long way in this. He has to generate some kind of excitement early regardless of season ticket sales. That will be a tough job with a young team. Will have to generate e=some kind of excitement. Hard to do that without wins or at least very competitive games against better competition. So I see it a a very fine balancing act. A start like last this past season with an inexperienced team may not be offset with a decent late season finish. I hope to see a DECENT mid-major schedule against teams that we would be underdogs to, but need to do well against and create some excitement.
I would suggest Jimmy goes after the students hard to come to the games to create some excitement. Make these games fun to be at to get families there, but we have to be competitive early. That will be a challenge. Otherwise I don't see much of a crowd after January almost regardless of their success. I see the Albany game as crucial in JP's future here.
|
|
mjs72
Junior
Posts: 974
Dislikes:
|
Post by mjs72 on Mar 11, 2017 12:37:33 GMT -5
I82 good post but if there truly are "off the court concerns", and we hear that here without any specific details on the "what, when, who and why", Admin is apt to use that as the defining factor. It played a role with Byer and some of the discipline issues with Lanier's recruits didn't help him.
|
|
siena95
Sophomore
Posts: 755
Dislikes:
|
Post by siena95 on Mar 11, 2017 12:47:17 GMT -5
Why on earth would JP "decide to cut a deal and move on to another job"? That makes no sense whatsoever! It's his fantasy wish he's been working on all season. When you have no work or job experience Shit like this makes perfect sense.
|
|