The aftermath.....

[hoopjunkie]

Two days after the annual UAlbany game. Reading and writing comments about the game, and the season so far. This year was supposed to be "the year" for a senior group of players we've grown with over the past 4 years, under yet another coaching regime. Since the rivalry game has been resurrected 16 years ago, I fell like for all 16 of those years, this game was a "must win" for our Siena team. Why? Because we are the superior program. The program with NCAA success. The program that has sent 4 head coaches to big time programs. Our fanbase EXPECTS our kids to win this game every year. The UAlbany fans, and program, look at it as an opportunity to prove they "belong" in the conversation as an equal. One that deserves to have the game rotated between the two schools home floors.

In the 16 years Will Brown has been the head coach at UAlbany. He has faced 4 Siena head coaches in his programs quest to gain that equality. Siena has changed direction, philosophy, production in those 16 years with the 4 very different head coaches. Brown has received one legit offer for a better job in those 16 years. He used it as leverage to get a great contract from UA so he could stay where he felt comfortable and where his wife grew up. Good for him, and his family. He's done a great job at a program that, because of it's newness to the D-1 scene, has very little, if any, pressure on him to succeed.

Siena has been known as a stepping stone job for high level assistants to get to that "million dollar" level once Mike Deane did what he did here in the late 80's-early 90's. Attracting assistants from Syracuse, Villanova, Texas that wanted to win 20+ games, get into the NCAA's and bolt for the bigger/better job ASAP. The stability in this program isn't what you'd want to produce consistent winners. Kids get caught up in the mix of playing for a guy that didn't recruit them. It's tough. The old coach might have liked a fast pace, the new one a walk-it-up, whatever.

This brings me to the fanbase. A spoiled one that doesn't deal with losing very well. Especially to the newbie in the same city. Trust me, our kids know how this game is looked at. It's sooooo important to the faithful alumni/fans that support the program, and have made it such a special place. I felt like the pressure to win was all on our kids, and not on theirs. It's never on their kids. They're not supposed to win the game, we are. They played that way, on both sides Sunday night. They were loose, we were tight Trying to force everything. Came back to play a great 2nd half, but too deep a hole to dig out of.

We are 2-4. Won each game we were favored in. Lost each game we were underdogs in. Fans out here already saying, "the season is over?!" No surprise. It's 6 games in, with a clearly hobbled Brett Bisping (nothing we can do) and two kids coming off 3 game suspensions (all our fault) where we've never had our full roster until the big rivalry game two nights ago. Nico played the first half like a kid that hasn't played for a week, and it hurt us. There's new kids figuring their role, and it may take time. Two stars players knees are in question.

If a team ever needed support from their fans, its now. Instead of the infighting and knocking every aspect of the program, get behind the kids and coach. Show them the sky isn't falling because we lost to UA. A REAL fan would do this. If you hate the coach, and thinks he's a failure, you have that right. Don't go to the game's, don't support the program. It's your money. It's your time. Be the fan you think would best support the program. Not the one that brings it down. We're 6 GAMES IN. There's a lot of basketball to be played. There's enough hate and distain pointed at our program from other ones that wish that they were us. We play at Bona tomorrow night. Support the kids. Support the program. People on this board spend a lot of time on it. I'm hoping because they want the team to succeed? Jumping off the ship after 6 games makes no sense.

[indian82]

GREAT POST!!

[bigsaintg]

Well written and some things to take to heart. Good thing is Jimmy tends to own Schmidt and let's keep the Franciscan Cup

[indian82]

Nov 29, 2016 12:35:24 GMT -5 bigsaintg said:

Well written and some things to take to heart. Good thing is So-So Jimbo tends to own Schmidt and let's keep the Franciscan Cup

That would be a good start! The MAAC season hasn't even started. This weekend is huge!

[MTS]

Good post, HJ - A lot of basketball to be played.

However I watched the replay of the UA game last night. Looking at it objectively (and I think even ClickClack would agree) Siena was by far the more talented team. But Albany was the better team, the tougher team and had the better coach. Siena played much better in the second half. I still believe we have the best talent in the MAAC and can win the league. However I'm not sure this coach and pull it off.

Our margin for error is gone..the chemistry has to start to formulate in a positive direction. There can be no more suspensions and drama. Brett's knees are a concern but at this point only managing them and hoping for the best is all we can do.

I had Siena at 5-1 ... 4-2 worst case. 2-4 is unacceptable. This was supposed to be our best team since Fran left. It doesn't mean we can't recover but it has to happen now. @ St. Bonaventure, Fairfield, @ Rider, Florida Gulf Coast before Siena goes into that 8 day break they need to put up some wins. We badly need a 3-1 stretch here with preferably two MAAC wins.

Let's hope the team sticks together, gets tougher, and plays like we all know they can!!!

[olddave]

Nov 29, 2016 12:14:53 GMT -5 hoopjunkie said:

Two days after the annual UAlbany game. Reading and writing comments about the game, and the season so far. This year was supposed to be "the year" for a senior group of players we've grown with over the past 4 years, under yet another coaching regime. Since the rivalry game has been resurrected 16 years ago, I fell like for all 16 of those years, this game was a "must win" for our Siena team. Why? Because we are the superior program. The program with NCAA success. The program that has sent 4 head coaches to big time programs. Our fanbase EXPECTS our kids to win this game every year. The UAlbany fans, and program, look at it as an opportunity to prove they "belong" in the conversation as an equal. One that deserves to have the game rotated between the two schools home floors.

In the 16 years Will Brown has been the head coach at UAlbany. He has faced 4 Siena head coaches in his programs quest to gain that equality. Siena has changed direction, philosophy, production in those 16 years with the 4 very different head coaches. Brown has received one legit offer for a better job in those 16 years. He used it as leverage to get a great contract from UA so he could stay where he felt comfortable and where his wife grew up. Good for him, and his family. He's done a great job at a program that, because of it's newness to the D-1 scene, has very little, if any, pressure on him to succeed.

Siena has been known as a stepping stone job for high level assistants to get to that "million dollar" level once Mike Deane did what he did here in the late 80's-early 90's. Attracting assistants from Syracuse, Villanova, Texas that wanted to win 20+ games, get into the NCAA's and bolt for the bigger/better job ASAP. The stability in this program isn't what you'd want to produce consistent winners. Kids get caught up in the mix of playing for a guy that didn't recruit them. It's tough. The old coach might have liked a fast pace, the new one a walk-it-up, whatever.

This brings me to the fanbase. A spoiled one that doesn't deal with losing very well. Especially to the newbie in the same city. Trust me, our kids know how this game is looked at. It's sooooo important to the faithful alumni/fans that support the program, and have made it such a special place. I felt like the pressure to win was all on our kids, and not on theirs. It's never on their kids. They're not supposed to win the game, we are. They played that way, on both sides Sunday night. They were loose, we were tight Trying to force everything. Came back to play a great 2nd half, but too deep a hole to dig out of.

We are 2-4. Won each game we were favored in. Lost each game we were underdogs in. Fans out here already saying, "the season is over?!" No surprise. It's 6 games in, with a clearly hobbled Brett Bisping (nothing we can do) and two kids coming off 3 game suspensions (all our fault) where we've never had our full roster until the big rivalry game two nights ago. Nico played the first half like a kid that hasn't played for a week, and it hurt us. There's new kids figuring their role, and it may take time. Two stars players knees are in question.

If a team ever needed support from their fans, its now. Instead of the infighting and knocking every aspect of the program, get behind the kids and coach. Show them the sky isn't falling because we lost to UA. A REAL fan would do this. If you hate the coach, and thinks he's a failure, you have that right. Don't go to the game's, don't support the program. It's your money. It's your time. Be the fan you think would best support the program. Not the one that brings it down. We're 6 GAMES IN. There's a lot of basketball to be played. There's enough hate and distain pointed at our program from other ones that wish that they were us. We play at Bona tomorrow night. Support the kids. Support the program. People on this board spend a lot of time on it. I'm hoping because they want the team to succeed? Jumping off the ship after 6 games makes no sense.

HJ, fantastic well thought out post. Certainly UA was the better TEAM, Sunday night, Brown is a great big Game coach. He had his kids playing BB as it should be played, as a team. I will submit to you regarding Brown receiving an offer, just don't remember, I know he had several interviews never heard an offer. But he is doing a great job at UA, deserves the raise he received, though I think they stiffed him on a bonus.

As far as Siena, correct to early to leap off the bridge but the preparation and coaching during the game was god awful. Perhaps JP just doesn't get where this game stands in the eyes of the faithful I remember attending these games in Mechanicville HS for its size. I was a neutral JP fan, now time for him to go. Can I along with others be persuaded to return to the fold, perhaps, but he damn well gives us a good reason to.

Again congrats on the great post.

[skipc]

Nov 29, 2016 12:14:53 GMT -5 hoopjunkie said:

Two days after the annual UAlbany game. Reading and writing comments about the game, and the season so far. This year was supposed to be "the year" for a senior group of players we've grown with over the past 4 years, under yet another coaching regime. Since the rivalry game has been resurrected 16 years ago, I fell like for all 16 of those years, this game was a "must win" for our Siena team. Why? Because we are the superior program. The program with NCAA success. The program that has sent 4 head coaches to big time programs. Our fanbase EXPECTS our kids to win this game every year. The UAlbany fans, and program, look at it as an opportunity to prove they "belong" in the conversation as an equal. One that deserves to have the game rotated between the two schools home floors.

In the 16 years Will Brown has been the head coach at UAlbany. He has faced 4 Siena head coaches in his programs quest to gain that equality. Siena has changed direction, philosophy, production in those 16 years with the 4 very different head coaches. Brown has received one legit offer for a better job in those 16 years. He used it as leverage to get a great contract from UA so he could stay where he felt comfortable and where his wife grew up. Good for him, and his family. He's done a great job at a program that, because of it's newness to the D-1 scene, has very little, if any, pressure on him to succeed.

Siena has been known as a stepping stone job for high level assistants to get to that "million dollar" level once Mike Deane did what he did here in the late 80's-early 90's. Attracting assistants from Syracuse, Villanova, Texas that wanted to win 20+ games, get into the NCAA's and bolt for the bigger/better job ASAP. The stability in this program isn't what you'd want to produce consistent winners. Kids get caught up in the mix of playing for a guy that didn't recruit them. It's tough. The old coach might have liked a fast pace, the new one a walk-it-up, whatever.

This brings me to the fanbase. A spoiled one that doesn't deal with losing very well. Especially to the newbie in the same city. Trust me, our kids know how this game is looked at. It's sooooo important to the faithful alumni/fans that support the program, and have made it such a special place. I felt like the pressure to win was all on our kids, and not on theirs. It's never on their kids. They're not supposed to win the game, we are. They played that way, on both sides Sunday night. They were loose, we were tight Trying to force everything. Came back to play a great 2nd half, but too deep a hole to dig out of.

We are 2-4. Won each game we were favored in. Lost each game we were underdogs in. Fans out here already saying, "the season is over?!" No surprise. It's 6 games in, with a clearly hobbled Brett Bisping (nothing we can do) and two kids coming off 3 game suspensions (all our fault) where we've never had our full roster until the big rivalry game two nights ago. Nico played the first half like a kid that hasn't played for a week, and it hurt us. There's new kids figuring their role, and it may take time. Two stars players knees are in question.

If a team ever needed support from their fans, its now. Instead of the infighting and knocking every aspect of the program, get behind the kids and coach. Show them the sky isn't falling because we lost to UA. A REAL fan would do this. If you hate the coach, and thinks he's a failure, you have that right. Don't go to the game's, don't support the program. It's your money. It's your time. Be the fan you think would best support the program. Not the one that brings it down. We're 6 GAMES IN. There's a lot of basketball to be played. There's enough hate and distain pointed at our program from other ones that wish that they were us. We play at Bona tomorrow night. Support the kids. Support the program. People on this board spend a lot of time on it. I'm hoping because they want the team to succeed? Jumping off the ship after 6 games makes no sense.

The following is my post from another thread that probably is more appropriate in this thread:
"We have as talented five players(seniors + Nico) as most teams we will face this year. The problem is they have no idea how to play as a team. If the coaches can't figure out how to make these terrific players work together as a team, then it will be a long and disappointing season. Time for JP and Greg to figure this out and get the players to buy in. I will wait to make my final judgement on JP until I see how this season unfolds. I have been disappointed to date."

HJ- I agree with your comments. I have always supported the players and will continue to do so other than when they do things off the court that hurt their team. I have also been a JP supporter since he came here. Given that, he and his coaches need to be much better for us to succeed. If they lead, the players will follow. It's on the coaches to maximize the talent they have this year. Time will tell. Until then, I will continue to support the team both home and away.

[clickclack]

Nov 29, 2016 12:57:16 GMT -5 MTS said:

Good post, HJ - A lot of basketball to be played.

However I watched the replay of the UA game last night. Looking at it objectively (and I think even ClickClack would agree) Siena was by far the more talented team. But Albany was the better team, the tougher team and had the better coach. Siena played much better in the second half. I still believe we have the best talent in the MAAC and can win the league. However I'm not sure this coach and pull it off.

Our margin for error is gone..the chemistry has to start to formulate in a positive direction. There can be no more suspensions and drama. Brett's knees are a concern but at this point only managing them and hoping for the best is all we can do.

I had Siena at 5-1 ... 4-2 worst case. 2-4 is unacceptable. This was supposed to be our best team since Fran left. It doesn't mean we can't recover but it has to happen now. @ St. Bonaventure, Fairfield, @ Rider, Florida Gulf Coast before Siena goes into that 8 day break they need to put up some wins. We badly need a 3-1 stretch here with preferably two MAAC wins.

Let's hope the team sticks together, gets tougher, and plays like we all know they can!!!

I sent you a PM as well but since you brought it up (my name)...just to be clear, I don't agree that you are by far the more talented team. At center and PF, maybe...you got matched and outplayed badly at the point and wing (Nichols/Cremo) and your bench is trash. Our two sophomores shredded you and even though you played well in the second half offensively, you still gave up 43pt in the second half. So no, I don't agree that you are vastly more talented, certainly not on the wings or back-court, at the 4 and 5 I agree, you have better "talent" but one is injured and the other soft. Our bench was/is better then your bench as well. I don't mean to detract from your therapy session so proceed.

If I may as an outsider though, I'd like to offer some obeservations...(take it or leave it or maybe I get banned you guys do have a ton of talent, I see no reason looking from outside in that you can't win the MAAC, your problem isn't talent. Not sure what you do with Bisping, great player and I've admired his play for years but the kid looks like a shell of his former self. He had a few drives in the second half, I was like oh oh, there he is...but he couldn't sustain it. You are getting nothing out of the PG position with moving Wright off the ball. You have to find someone to get you into your sets (if you have them)...far to often you guys kicked the ball around the horn and then someone threw something up. You have to rebound better and push the ball and utilize your explosiveness with Wright and Nico, even the other lesser use kids would get some easy buckets. You need to sit Fisher, Brett Gifford compared to him looks like an athletic freak, he doesn't do anything well. Lastly, it starts at the top, Patsos needs to do some SERIOUS soul searching. I find it unconscionable that out one side of his mouth he's lecturing through the media that players need to move on, look towards the next play but that he's "dealing with 18-22" year old kids. And in the next breath he has NO problem getting a tech after Nico drills a three about something that happened 2 possessions earlier. Like I said, you don't have a talent problem, but you keep throwing kids under the bus like that and take no personal responsibility, this will get worse!

I wish you guys the best of luck the rest of the year...not much for the fans to do but hope for the best and cheer your team on. So much season still left...you doing well helps our RPI so good luck.

[greengold4ever]

Nov 29, 2016 12:14:53 GMT -5 hoopjunkie said:

Two days after the annual UAlbany game. Reading and writing comments about the game, and the season so far. This year was supposed to be "the year" for a senior group of players we've grown with over the past 4 years, under yet another coaching regime. Since the rivalry game has been resurrected 16 years ago, I fell like for all 16 of those years, this game was a "must win" for our Siena team. Why? Because we are the superior program. The program with NCAA success. The program that has sent 4 head coaches to big time programs. Our fanbase EXPECTS our kids to win this game every year. The UAlbany fans, and program, look at it as an opportunity to prove they "belong" in the conversation as an equal. One that deserves to have the game rotated between the two schools home floors.

In the 16 years Will Brown has been the head coach at UAlbany. He has faced 4 Siena head coaches in his programs quest to gain that equality. Siena has changed direction, philosophy, production in those 16 years with the 4 very different head coaches. Brown has received one legit offer for a better job in those 16 years. He used it as leverage to get a great contract from UA so he could stay where he felt comfortable and where his wife grew up. Good for him, and his family. He's done a great job at a program that, because of it's newness to the D-1 scene, has very little, if any, pressure on him to succeed.

Siena has been known as a stepping stone job for high level assistants to get to that "million dollar" level once Mike Deane did what he did here in the late 80's-early 90's. Attracting assistants from Syracuse, Villanova, Texas that wanted to win 20+ games, get into the NCAA's and bolt for the bigger/better job ASAP. The stability in this program isn't what you'd want to produce consistent winners. Kids get caught up in the mix of playing for a guy that didn't recruit them. It's tough. The old coach might have liked a fast pace, the new one a walk-it-up, whatever.

This brings me to the fanbase. A spoiled one that doesn't deal with losing very well. Especially to the newbie in the same city. Trust me, our kids know how this game is looked at. It's sooooo important to the faithful alumni/fans that support the program, and have made it such a special place. I felt like the pressure to win was all on our kids, and not on theirs. It's never on their kids. They're not supposed to win the game, we are. They played that way, on both sides Sunday night. They were loose, we were tight Trying to force everything. Came back to play a great 2nd half, but too deep a hole to dig out of.

We are 2-4. Won each game we were favored in. Lost each game we were underdogs in. Fans out here already saying, "the season is over?!" No surprise. It's 6 games in, with a clearly hobbled Brett Bisping (nothing we can do) and two kids coming off 3 game suspensions (all our fault) where we've never had our full roster until the big rivalry game two nights ago. Nico played the first half like a kid that hasn't played for a week, and it hurt us. There's new kids figuring their role, and it may take time. Two stars players knees are in question.

If a team ever needed support from their fans, its now. Instead of the infighting and knocking every aspect of the program, get behind the kids and coach. Show them the sky isn't falling because we lost to UA. A REAL fan would do this. If you hate the coach, and thinks he's a failure, you have that right. Don't go to the game's, don't support the program. It's your money. It's your time. Be the fan you think would best support the program. Not the one that brings it down. We're 6 GAMES IN. There's a lot of basketball to be played. There's enough hate and distain pointed at our program from other ones that wish that they were us. We play at Bona tomorrow night. Support the kids. Support the program. People on this board spend a lot of time on it. I'm hoping because they want the team to succeed? Jumping off the ship after 6 games makes no sense.

this is ALL great stuff, excellent post, and the follow up comments by others here are true to the core...................the only thing that can be added here, and this is basically in regards to Patsos & the coaching staff......................IF you are not able to WIN with this group, honestly you have no business being here...............they have talented players with all-MAAC selections (4 seniors each will have over 1,000 career points and 1 soph who is half way to that total as well), they have experienced players (4 seniors, of which 1 is a 5yr guy), they have a decent bench (yes they are young, but there is enough depth to allow the talented core of players to get valuable minutes resting during stretches of any game if used properly)..............so the clock is ticking, it is yr 4 of this regime, a major tournament is "required" this season, remember another coach with a better post season resume (NCAA & NIT) was fired here (that being Lanier)..........................and one last thought on Siena-UA series..............and I for one want it to continue, it needs to be played ONLY at TUC, but again make the tickets first come first serve for ALL & not part of either ticket package (if anything give a certain allotment to each student body so they can be placed behind baskets appropriately) and split the gate down the middle (also simply take turns designating the home team for uniforms, who cares)...............for Siena, this game is a no win, they are expected to always win and even at that, it needs to be a blow out or deemed a failure, then of course if they lose it is essentially the end of the world as we know it.....totally unfair, but that is how the script is currently written!!!!!!!!!!!

[Deleted]

Good post HJ - does a decent job of resetting the table. I think the frustration that most of us feel comes from the fact that we recognize these kids are talented to varying degrees. Freshmen are always all world when recruited and then either a surprise or a project when they arrive. This year's Freshman class has an abundance of raw talent. As a whole, the team on paper looks like it deserves the pre-season Kool-Aid toasts yet we aren't seeing it on the floor at all. Those of us that are not huge fans of JP got there in large part due to his behavior on the court and his spin sessions following just about every game. He may have a game plan but it is rarely evident when the kids take the floor. Hearing "we/they weren't ready to play" infuriates the fan base - it is his and his staff's responsibility to ensure the kids come prepared and focused, if they aren't, they sit. We don't see that. His substitution patterns are mind numbing. We all get it that he was quite impressed with Evan's hanging around and working his ass off all summer and he was equally unimpressed (and I would editorialize it with 'pissed') by WB's return home to the Netherlands. So be it - but when it is obvious that in certain game situations his "favorites" aren't holding their own he must make smart substitutions. Our previous coaches recognized the need for this and actually practiced reflecting the need to sub into a position that wasn't the norm. We don't see many, if any, set plays and the pass it around the horn waiting for God only know what doesn't work and actually helps the opponent. We have a senior laden team - maybe not at 100% but they should look like they have played together for more than a couple of months. It's frustrating and the bad losses provide the vent valve for that to come out. We all support the team, even when we are expressing our vitriol for the HC - I will still go to Olean albeit not expecting as much as I was a week ago. And before you respond with the "hater" adjective - I don't hate JP - I don't know him well enough to hate him - I just don't like his approach or style.

[glen]

We started 4 seniors and a frosh, right? And they didn't play as a team. Sorry, but no sugar coating that. The 4 seniors are 21+ and are men. They aren't little boys. They got schooled. Do I think they are more talented? For sure. They came out with zero passion and energy - that's on Jimmy ... and on the players. They want a fan base to support them then they need to do their part. I don't mind a loss but this is "the year". Sure, they can recover but it is going to take a great effort especially with Nico and Brett hobbled. I can already hear Jimmy's excuses.

[olddave]

players came out a little cocky perhaps. this is on the coach letting them run with their emotions not keeping within themselves. add that to the horrible coaching in the game, first half than the second half technical. wonder why everyone is mystified and po.

[Papi]

Great post HJ. I hope the spoiled fans get the hint. It will be a shame they quit on the team and coach if they win the maac. But we all know they are subconsciously rooting for so so results.

[Tony]

Good post HJ- and something to be said for most of your points- maybe it wasn’t players feeling the pressure- looked to me like it was Jimmy. Team was not prepared. Brown had a zone that collapsed on JO in first half and Jimmy kept insisting we punch it in to Javion, while other players stood around. Jimmy didn’t make any adjustments till the 2nd half- after we dug a huge hole. He continues to insist on playing Evan Fisher – and while I’m not convinced plus minus in basketball is that big a deal , especially this early in season , Evan has a -7.2 ranking on team – by far the worst of any player with significant time this year ( Wright and JO have best plus/minus ) To coach’s credit he didn’t play EF in 2nd half but the damage was done in 1st half. No need to go over the ill-advised technical. As a coach you never take a T that kills your own momentum. It was a horrible undisciplined Technical. Jimmy knows how important the Albany game is so to come out unprepared or to lose 3 out of 4 to Albany isn’t good for job security


I’m by no means giving up on season- although I’ve tempered my expectations somewhat. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Siena beat the bonnies- after all he isn’t stinky Jimbo- he is Jimmy

[siena7127]

My issues are the lack of game prep, in game adjustments, the lack of defense our team seems to be taught (they cant play it without fouling), and player rotation. I think the team has great talent I just don't think the coaching staff is doing much with it or trying at times.

The technical would have been better served in the first when all the calls were going to UA and we were getting our doors blown off, then I could have seen a tech to inspire the team and change the games momentum.

Of course I support the team and the players but Jimmy has to do a lot to get me to come to his corner, he certainly has done enough to push me away with his lazy recruiting and lazy coaching. But I will say it again i am rooting for him to win 20+ and a MAAC championship because that makes me a happy fan.