Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 19:11:22 GMT -5
Ok let's not project the anti-Patsos agendas on the pro-JO eligibility hope.
It's just people wanting another decent player to be eligible for the rotation. That's all. What's wrong with that? Don't try to tell me that having a chance at getting 100 blocks out of the center tandem wouldn't be a nice bonus to a team trying to build it's success around defense.
That's something worth rooting for. Let's not give up hope until it's time to.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 19:22:43 GMT -5
If you take the stats of JO's last year and Silas' last year, prorate them, and split the minutes evenly at 20 per game...you get this as your center platoon:
MPG = 40 PPG = 11.44 RPG = 9.16 BPG = 3.14
Blocks on the year = 94
If it was Silas 30, JO 10...it would be this:
MPG = 40 PPG = 10.24 RPG = 10.18 BPG = 3.59
Blocks on the year = 107.80
If it was JO 30, Silas 10...it would be this:
MPG = 40 PPG = 12.63 RPG = 8.15 BPG = 2.68
Blocks on the year = 80.54
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siena79
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Post by siena79 on Aug 31, 2015 19:31:00 GMT -5
I try to be supportive of the school, players and coaches whenever possible, but JP giving a scholarship to Cam is, at best, a headscratcher. I cannot understand why Coach Patso would have originally offered any kind of deal to a player who had little to no interest from other D1 schools when Siena needed a significant talent upgrade. I am sure Cam is a great kid, he probably has great BB IQ and I am sure he puts in effort, but Siena needs impact players, not someone who is more suited to D2 or D3. It really bothers me to think of someone with Javian's family and financial situation having to take on loans in order to contribute to the programs success while Cam gets a full scholly for riding the bench when his father makes multi-millions a year. This is not Cam's fault, and I really feel sorry for him as he does not deserve any ill will or aspersions; this is on the coach. I cannot understand what JP was thinking on this; it has put Cam, Javian and the program in a very tough situation. I would love to have a conversation with Coach Patso about this, there must be something I am missing.
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Post by MTS on Aug 31, 2015 19:52:00 GMT -5
O is not playing this year. Just chalk it up as another Patsos error and move on. What are you talking about? If JO can't play it is because he left for BU. It has NOTHING to do with giving Gottfried a scholarship (which, BTW, I agree was a stupid thing to do). Unless you want to blame Patsos for JO leaving in the first place which I think that is ridiculous considering what JO has gone through. It's up to the NCAA now - those are the facts whether Gottfried got the scholarship or not. Pretty well documented that is the hold up but some spin anything as a Patsos attack. And yes if it JO couldn't suit up because Siena did not have a scholarship I'd be the first one bitching but that is NOT the case.
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Post by NotRonaldMoore on Sept 1, 2015 0:09:33 GMT -5
I think the unfounded (at this point anyway) optimism is clouding clear thinking. IS reminds me of Trump saying the Mexicans will pay for the wall - done deal!!!!!!!!!!! MP stick to what you know, I'm not sure what that is, but it certainly isn't politics. Stop being a coward and put your political digs where they belong. Which is not here. I like Politics.
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Post by Tony on Sept 1, 2015 5:28:55 GMT -5
Have to agree-- you cant prorate- especially considering Silas has never been able to play more than 17 mpg due to foul trouble
I will add I think a combination of JO/Silas would be very productive. If both available final number would be somewhere around 27-13
And I think we all agree if JO can play Siena is much stronger
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glen
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Post by glen on Sept 1, 2015 6:30:15 GMT -5
Doesn't matter...I highly suspect JO is not playing this year. If he took classes and practiced with the Terriers then according to the rules he shouldn't. I'm not sure of his situation at home and what made him transfer to BU (I thought his family was going to NYC?) He made the choice. Once he was gone, Jimmy had no reason not to give Cam a scholarship, other than that he's not D1 material. That said, Siena has had plenty of "practice" players on scholarship. If there was nobody in the queue for that 'ship then why not give it to Cam as promised (that should never have been done but it was so...)
There were failures on multiple levels. The team *should* be fine this year regardless. If this becomes "the excuse" for a sh*t season I'll be off the JP bandwagon for sure.
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SIENA1971
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Post by SIENA1971 on Sept 1, 2015 6:43:47 GMT -5
He still has 2 years of eligibility left only question is which two ... With the cards in life dealt to him so far I'd like him to catch a break ... Yeah he made the choice of leaving but his returning wasn't a basketball decision it was a life decision ... Let's cut him some slack
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 6:50:00 GMT -5
Pardon me for trying add a different viewpoint. I don't know why I bother. It's like talking to ogres. Go back to your caves and sip on your stone soup.
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siena95
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Post by siena95 on Sept 1, 2015 8:04:48 GMT -5
I try to be supportive of the school, players and coaches whenever possible, but JP giving a scholarship to Cam is, at best, a headscratcher. I cannot understand why Coach Patso would have originally offered any kind of deal to a player who had little to no interest from other D1 schools when Siena needed a significant talent upgrade. I am sure Cam is a great kid, he probably has great BB IQ and I am sure he puts in effort, but Siena needs impact players, not someone who is more suited to D2 or D3. It really bothers me to think of someone with Javian's family and financial situation having to take on loans in order to contribute to the programs success while Cam gets a full scholly for riding the bench when his father makes multi-millions a year. This is not Cam's fault, and I really feel sorry for him as he does not deserve any ill will or aspersions; this is on the coach. I cannot understand what JP was thinking on this; it has put Cam, Javian and the program in a very tough situation. I would love to have a conversation with Coach Patso about this, there must be something I am missing. What you are missing is JO left Siena of his own volition. He created the situation he is in... his cousin being killed is tragic, but he is also homesick and found the grass isn't always greener.... It's too bad siena doesn't have a scholarship to give him this year, but again, that's on JO, not siena. What if Patsos had signed a decent incoming freshman w. that last scholarship, would people want jimmy paige to hand over his scholarship? JO left, siena carried on w/o him....
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SaintMisbehavin
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Post by SaintMisbehavin on Sept 1, 2015 8:45:57 GMT -5
I know others have said as much, but let's be clear on a few things here:
- Receiving financial aid is not the same as receiving an academic or humanitarian scholarship. Every college student is eligible for financial aid on a need basis. This wouldn't have anything to do with his eligibility. If he suddenly was awarded a presidential scholarship or something of the like and received extra financial support from Siena, that would be a violation.
- His eligibility this upcoming season has nothing to do with being a scholarship player or not. It has everything to do with whether the NCAA decides that JO participated in basketball activities during his brief stay in Beantown.
- There are no more hardship waivers. This would have certainly been considered for one in the past, but they no longer exist. This comes down to whether or not a few weeks of summer practice are considered official team activity.
Welcome back to Siena, JO. We're all pulling for you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 8:57:54 GMT -5
If you take the stats of JO's last year and Silas' last year, prorate them, and split the minutes evenly at 20 per game...you get this as your center platoon: MPG = 40 PPG = 11.44 RPG = 9.16 BPG = 3.14 Blocks on the year = 94 If it was Silas 30, JO 10...it would be this:MPG = 40 PPG = 10.24 RPG = 10.18 BPG = 3.59 Blocks on the year = 107.80 If it was JO 30, Silas 10...it would be this:MPG = 40 PPG = 12.63 RPG = 8.15 BPG = 2.68 Blocks on the year = 80.54 Except that anyone with a brain knows you can't prorate stats. Just like uou claiming Willem has a better rebounding "rate" than JO. Anyone who has actually played basketball knows you can put up better "rates" in 10 mpg against bench players than in 30 mpg against starters. "Rate" stats and "prorated" stats have no meaning in the real world. Then why is Ken Pomeroy making a ton of money? And why do guys like Brad Stevens take them so seriously? People keep refusing to acknowledge JO's weaknesses cause the kid is from Troy. Or want to stick it to Patsos. Newsflash: Every kid and coach this conference has both strengths and weaknesses. JO's weakness is rebounding. Silas' weakness is scoring. Deal with it. I, for one, think they'd make a good tandem as they complement each other's weaknesses while both being shot blockers. I'm just trying to make discussion to liven up a dead period and I get insulted for it. Grow up. The rebounding dropped by 6 boards per game last year without Silas and Bisping...why exactly do you think that was? Wright was here. Poole was here. Long was here. JO was here....why did it drop? Cause JO was not yet on their level as a rebounder. It's a fact that JO has had the worst rebounding rate of all the returning bigs currently on the roster. I didn't make that up. That's what the numbers say. I'm just the messenger. If you don't see at least some value and interesting thing in this analysis, then fine, live in your cave. This board should be named PMS hoops.
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Sept 1, 2015 9:46:14 GMT -5
I guess the real question is what is more valuable to Siena basketball. Getting JO to play this season while we have Silas and then lose him for 2017-2018, or having JO sit out this season, step right in for Silas next year and then in 2017-2018 be the 5th year senior in a year where we could potentially have one or no other seniors depending on what happens with Paige and Brandwijk. I know we are all desperate to get back to the top of the MAAC as soon as possible but in the long run, I think JO is more valuable in 2017-2018 then he would be this season with Silas back.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 9:54:52 GMT -5
I guess the real question is what is more valuable to Siena basketball. Getting JO to play this season while we have Silas and then lose him for 2017-2018, or having JO sit out this season, step right in for Silas next year and then in 2017-2018 be the 5th year senior in a year where we could potentially have one or no other seniors depending on what happens with Paige and Brandwijk. I know we are all desperate to get back to the top of the MAAC as soon as possible but in the long run, I think JO is more valuable in 2017-2018 then he would be this season with Silas back. The time is now. Silas alone may not do it. Last year showed we need depth. With both, you turn something like interior D which you're good at with Silas and Bisping into a conference leading type strength with JO too...in a year where interior play is down in general. When 100 blocks out of your center position becomes a reality....200 blocks out of your team does too... Creating fear of attacking inside sets the tone for the defense. Shot blocking instills that fear. That allows quick guys like Wright, Nico, and Wormley to be more aggressive defensive playmakers on the outside. And that kind of defense is special. The kind of special that leads to consistent winning and championships. We want JO now. This could be our chance to turn things around. As a duo, they can be mighty. Alone, they are both flawed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 11:59:13 GMT -5
Then why is Ken Pomeroy making a ton of money? And why do guys like Brad Stevens take them so seriously? People keep refusing to acknowledge JO's weaknesses cause the kid is from Troy. Or want to stick it to Patsos. Newsflash: Every kid and coach this conference has both strengths and weaknesses. JO's weakness is rebounding. Silas' weakness is scoring. Deal with it. I, for one, think they'd make a good tandem as they complement each other's weaknesses while both being shot blockers. I'm just trying to make discussion to liven up a dead period and I get insulted for it. Grow up. The rebounding dropped by 6 boards per game last year without Silas and Bisping...why exactly do you think that was? Wright was here. Poole was here. Long was here. JO was here....why did it drop? Cause JO was not yet on their level as a rebounder. It's a fact that JO has had the worst rebounding rate of all the returning bigs currently on the roster. I didn't make that up. That's what the numbers say. I'm just the messenger. If you don't see at least some value and interesting thing in this analysis, then fine, live in your cave. This board should be named PMS hoops. I haven't seen anyone deny any player's weaknesses. In Javion's case they just aren't nearly what you continue to imply. And Silas' or WB's "strengths" aren't nearly what you imply. Put Javion in for just 10 mpg against bench players and tell me what his "rates" are. Then put Silas or WB in for 30 mpg against starters. Oh wait, they've both shown they can't play 30 mpg. "I haven't seen anyone deny any player's weaknesses. " "In Javion's case they just aren't nearly what you continue to imply" So you say no one is denying anyone's weaknesses except well, you, in the sentence immediately following your denial. I don't post on Siena hoops. I hope you enjoyed my post on Siena hoops.
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