Patsos trying to rebuild Siena basketball

[Tony]

Story makes some good points. for those of you that think Patsos is going anywhere

"Patsos' job is not in any jeopardy. He has four years remaining on his contract, which pays more than $300,000 annually. "I think he's in a good spot," D'Argenio said.

So Siena is "all in" minimum of two more years more than likely 3 years- so while I don't mind some venting- You guys better hope Jimmy "gets" it because he isn't going anywhere for a long time

It’s been a tough year with injuries and Patsos openly admits he made a mistake with Cole

We also have this gem

"While Patsos makes over the Siena roster, he also would like to see long-planned improvements to Siena's facilities become reality." really have mixed feeling on this, Jimmy doesn't use the campus or TUC in his recruiting so I'm not sure how much the upgrades matter- but I believe once money is raised for this purpose it must be used for that

all in all Story basically says Siena is "all in" on patsos, and I have to tell you Jimmy has a track record. he isn't a lanier or a Mitch. My biggest fear is he has a career winning pct of 500--is he is Dave Magarity , those guys are tough to get rid of and in their own way run a program into the ground, although its a slow grind with those type coaches. Dont want to see Loyola north here at Siena- and 1st two year scheduling excuses and recruiting scream Loyola north

Biggest thing I see so far is Jimmy thought he could coach here at Siena same as Loyola, he has not upped his game, and to be frank tried to dumb down the program, downplay expectations., all the while he was trying to make low major deals like Gottfried, not sure what the deal was with Paige and made a mistake with Cole

Having said all that - he has a very good 4 man class coming in and hopefully he is not done, we need an experienced wing in worst way. We really have no choice but to hope he "gets it" because Jimmy isnt going anywhere for a long time. lets not have the next 3 years consist of Bitching about Jimmy- if you feel that strongly on Jimmy write D'arg or drop you seats and fandom

[bigfan]

I think Paige is going to be better than most who consider him a recruiting mistake would believe. I don't envision him as a star, but he should be a solid contributor.
He moves well without the ball and makes quick cuts to the hoop to receive a pass. He has some IQ and works hard.

[Tony]

I should put this link in,although its a plus story so if you google

Siena takes a step backward during injury-riddled season after encouraging first step

the article comes up

www.timesunion.com/tuplus-local/article/Patsos-trying-to-rebuild-Siena-basketball-6108091.php

[Tony]

Mar 2, 2015 6:14:10 GMT -5 bigfan said:

I think Paige is going to be better than most who consider him a recruiting mistake would believe. I don't envision him as a star, but he should be a solid contributor.
He moves well without the ball and makes quick cuts to the hoop to receive a pass. He has some IQ and works hard.

I don't disagree BigFan, I hope Paige can play the 3 or he is a recruiting mistake, patsos has only used him at the 4 this year so he isnt ready to play the 3 yet- I also have a concern people say we are slow as a team and not athletic enough ( and I agree). you can say Brett is a good guy smart player etc, but truth of the matter is he is very slow and not super athletic, Ryan Oliver can shoot lights out, he has limited lateral speed, Lavon is below avg athlete for the 3 -- you see where I'm going any of those guys are fine- you cant have a team full of below avg athletes. A tough nosed SOB like paige-- you can find a spot for him as long as you don't have a team full of those types or otherwise you get what you see this year ( a slow non athletic team)

My biggest gripe on paige is he only had low major interest last January- he played PF in high school, why did coach take his verbal then? it was obvious he wasn't going to help, Jimmy has said Paige was going to redshirt - why would you take his verbal in Jan instead of putting him off and trying to recruit more of an impact player - how much better would Siena have been this year had Jimmy used that Scholarship to land an athletic 3 - combine the head scratcher of Paige with-- I dunno what the deal was on Gottfried ( and yeah I know it didnt cost a ship last year, but no way he should be making that kind of deal for walk on) and I say Jimmy and his staff was lazy last year on recruiting trail

[Deleted]

Unless one is recruited or Nico can play the three there's another 500 season on the horizon. I hate to see a kid get booted or leave to make room for the 3 that's needed though.

Maybe a preferred walk on status for them too?

[sky]

Although I do my share of "bitching" about Patsos maybe Tony is right saying that we should stop it and it is non productive. BUT I think a constant critiquing is necessary both positive and negative. Let's hear what everyone thinks in an analytical way and keep tract of the +'s and -'s. For example in the last game at a critical point we had the smallest guy on the the court take the ball out.this was one of Mitcham I favorite things and it ended the same way.
So let's hear some positive things about Patsos and let's discuss it.

[th24]

WOW- the board never stops with its BS! Amazing!!

[Deleted]

Mar 2, 2015 6:05:37 GMT -5 Tony said:

Having said all that - he has a very good 4 man class coming in and hopefully he is not done, we need an experienced wing in worst way. We really have no choice but to hope he "gets it" because Jimmy isnt going anywhere for a long time. lets not have the next 3 years consist of Bitching about Jimmy- if you feel that strongly on Jimmy write D'arg or drop you seats and fandom

I certainly don't think any of us are planning on bitching about Jimmy for the next three years (we saw some of that [not mentioning any names but.... ] during our last coach's tenure and it didn't speed up the process to any measurable degree). After the tournament run, it's a clean slate, we will be 0-0 with lots of new and healthy players and possibly an altered staff and we won't see how that translates to the TUC floor until the first few games of next season. I really anticipate big changes in his coaching style - he already showed some toning down on the sidelines as this dismal season played out. If similar changes, out of the public eye, are made in terms of how he deals with and utilizes his staff (key in my view), things, by definition, can only get better. Expectations will be much, much lower (with the possible exception of our bedrock fan - MTS). I hope you realize that some bitching is possible based on history. If things don't change, it won't last for three years as I'm sure he will be gone by the end of 2017 if we use your view of the world.

[gorvy]

He may sitting in a good spot now, but he will have his choice of thousands more spots to sit in if this continues.

[siena12077]

Mar 2, 2015 7:11:50 GMT -5 th24 said:

WOW- the board never stops with its BS! Amazing!!

KNOCK IT OFF!!

[glen]

I wouldn't expect big changes in coaching. What you saw was a coach resigned to the outcome. We had a slow team all year but did we stop pressing? Nope. Change isn't in Jimmy's dictionary. That is a knock on him BUT if he can get the roster more to his liking it should turn out OK. Next year should help but we realistically need 8 guys suited for Jimmy's style and we'll have maybe 4 or 5. We are probably 2 years out from any serious noise. I'm keeping that in mind as I probably re-up my tix.

I will say, the inbound mistakes have got to stop. That is a classic sign of a BAD coach. There's no reason for that.

[SaintsFan]

Mar 2, 2015 7:11:50 GMT -5 th24 said:

WOW- the board never stops with its BS! Amazing!!

As long as those in the position to make decisions continue to do so with the accuracy of monkeys flinging shit against the wall, you will continue to hear from people who are not happy with the situation.

[SaintsFan]

Ive said it in other threads, I really do believe that Patsos hands were tied.

- It isn't like he can just kick a bunch of kids out of the program for not being of the caliber player he needed/wanted. There were kids that were borderline D1 and of course not of the maac level. Proof of the level of player is the record over the past five years. Too many one dimensional players with catastrophic weaknesses. Yet, he cant do anything about it.

- He had his recruits coming year one. No time to recruit. Bring the entire class from Loyola because he needed bodies, regardless of fit. Spend the next year sorting it all out. Who of the returning players makes the playing rotation and who of the recruits pans out? The staff winds up late in the cycle and winds up with Brandwijk and Paige. Neither really fill the NEED the team has but neither are bad recruits. Lets not forget the false positive of the CBI.

- Then comes this season with it's recruiting cycle. He lands *** Fisher, *** Clareth, ** Wormley and hopefully one more 2/3 (should Clareth play the 3). I think we all wanted a faster turnaround but without a doubt the prior coach obliterated the program in a few short years.

I would add... the team was left without leaders, athleticism and speed. I could break down the weaknesses of each player but I am certain we are all well aware now.

Leaders: We can claim certain players are leaders but in fact... they are not. Not one single player on this team is a vocal leader, playing nor injured... certainly not one that is listened to. Siena needs a player that is going to give the other team that proverbial "punch in the mouth" when things aren't going well. They need that player that is going to get in another players face when they need that sort of motivation. They need a player that is going to put the team on their backs in those hopefully few moments that it is necessary. They don't have ANY of that. I don't want to hear anyone claim "well so and so is" ... simple truth... NO. Not one single player on the team is that guy right now. I really... REALLY like what ive seen from both Clareth and Fisher in this respect.

Athleticism and Speed: Fisher will be one of the more agile bigs, Clareth most certainly is adding athleticism and speed at whichever, the two or three, that he plays. Wormley is bringing athleticism, speed and size to backup the one and two. Lets get that transfer in to round it all out.

last but not least... we have the replacement to Poole in what looks to be a gem in the rough in LaRose. Great size at 6'5" and a deadly shooter.

Proof of the above should be on display over the next year+. It will be shown with the development of the incoming class and further recruiting. I think Patsos has a VERY clear idea now of who and what works and what doesn't. Frankly, right now he has a lot that doesn't (from both roster pre-patsos and even some of his own). Help is on the way.

[OneIndian]

I'll wait and see what next year brings but I'm growing more and more impatient and less tolerant as we continue to struggle.

It's eventually going to have an impact on $$$ - and Siena can't afford it ......

[siena77]

Mar 2, 2015 8:15:16 GMT -5 SaintsFan said:

Ive said it in other threads, I really do believe that Patsos hands were tied.

- It isn't like he can just kick a bunch of kids out of the program for not being of the caliber player he needed/wanted. There were kids that were borderline D1 and of course not of the maac level. Proof of the level of player is the record over the past five years. Too many one dimensional players with catastrophic weaknesses. Yet, he cant do anything about it.

- He had his recruits coming year one. No time to recruit. Bring the entire class from Loyola because he needed bodies, regardless of fit. Spend the next year sorting it all out. Who of the returning players makes the playing rotation and who of the recruits pans out? The staff winds up late in the cycle and winds up with Brandwijk and Paige. Neither really fill the NEED the team has but neither are bad recruits. Lets not forget the false positive of the CBI.

- Then comes this season with it's recruiting cycle. He lands *** Fisher, *** Clareth, ** Wormley and hopefully one more 2/3 (should Clareth play the 3). I think we all wanted a faster turnaround but without a doubt the prior coach obliterated the program in a few short years.

I would add... the team was left without leaders, athleticism and speed. I could break down the weaknesses of each player but I am certain we are all well aware now.

Leaders: We can claim certain players are leaders but in fact... they are not. Not one single player on this team is a vocal leader, playing nor injured... certainly not one that is listened to. Siena needs a player that is going to give the other team that proverbial "punch in the mouth" when things aren't going well. They need that player that is going to get in another players face when they need that sort of motivation. They need a player that is going to put the team on their backs in those hopefully few moments that it is necessary. They don't have ANY of that. I don't want to hear anyone claim "well so and so is" ... simple truth... NO. Not one single player on the team is that guy right now. I really... REALLY like what ive seen from both Clareth and Fisher in this respect.

Athleticism and Speed: Fisher will be one of the more agile bigs, Clareth most certainly is adding athleticism and speed at whichever, the two or three, that he plays. Wormley is bringing athleticism, speed and size to backup the one and two. Lets get that transfer in to round it all out.

last but not least... we have the replacement to Poole in what looks to be a gem in the rough in LaRose. Great size at 6'5" and a deadly shooter.

Proof of the above should be on display over the next year+. It will be shown with the development of the incoming class and further recruiting. I think Patsos has a VERY clear idea now of who and what works and what doesn't. Frankly, right now he has a lot that doesn't (from both roster pre-patsos and even some of his own). Help is on the way.

OK to all that, but CAN HE COACH? As demonstrated by Lanier, having talent doesn't necessarily equate to getting the most (or nearly the most) out of it. I believe that the incoming frosh are strong, but in mid-December will we still be hearing "THEY haven't learned the system", "THEY need to mesh better with the upperclassmen", and witness the Patsos screamfest on the sidelines with them?

I've watched the team the last 2 years, and I'm not convinced. You can say he proved his coaching skills at Loyola, but did their accomplishments during his time there measure up to the talent levels he had?

Prove me wrong, Jimmy. GO SAINTS!!