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Post by MTS on Feb 25, 2015 15:50:04 GMT -5
I agree with most of Jimmy's points but I don't like hearing the 5-year plan thing (unless he means get to the sweet 16 is 5 year or something!). Most people thought it would take 3 years before Siena made a strong push at the MAAC championship. We got ahead of schedule with the strong finish and the CBI championship last year and injuries derailed the train this year as we fell back. Next year Siena should absolutely challenge for the MAAC championship. That doesn't mean we'll win it but we should be in the top 3 or 4, have a winning record and have a legitimate chance to win the tournament at the TUC next March. There will be no more blaming Mitch (not that JP has done that) as the team will be 75% made up of his players. We will have four freshmen but the core of the team will be experienced juniors (including a 4th year JR). Jimmy's fault or not Siena fans have waited too long to be serious contenders in the MAAC. The pressure is on to make it happen in 2015-2016. You don't get ahead of schedule because you win the CBI if this disaster is what follows it. Sounds like it's year 2 of a 5 year plan, don't sweat it man! Next year should be better. That's what I meant. We WERE AHEAD of schedule before this season. If you flipped last year with this year it would be more of the "progression". But we took a big step back. Some mistakes were made and some bad fortune (i.e. injuries) wrecked this season. Most people (including myself) said the third season would be the one to really judge Jimmy on. Well in a couple of weeks the start of that third season will be underway. |
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Feb 25, 2015 15:55:45 GMT -5
I don't think the cbi was a mistake. I think it is going a long way to temper some of the bad feelings of this season.
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Post by MTS on Feb 25, 2015 16:33:15 GMT -5
I don't think the cbi was a mistake. I think it is going a long way to temper some of the bad feelings of this season. Right you are!!! Patsos is feeling the heat now how much would he be feeling it without the CBI title? No, he would not have gotten fired but lets just say the pressure on him would have been 10 fold. Still, the expectations are going to be to produce a winning team next year at the minimum which I think he knows and I fully expect to happen. The CBI title and its good will has now worn off with this season. I never thought Mitch was going to turn it around because he just had too much bad history going against him. No guarantee Jimmy will but his last two years at Loyola produced a 47-21 record with two postseason bids including the MAAC tournament title. Plus, he turned an 8 win team into 20 wins (15 wins even before the CBI). At least he has a resume to stand on and believe that he has the capability to get Siena back again. Look at Mark Turgeon (JP's buddie) at Maryland. Although he had three winning seasons (two of them at 17-15) he was .500 or below in conference every year. For a high-major like Maryland that is equivalent to having a losing overall season at Siena. But he has got it going this year. He was a proven winner at Wichita State and Texas A&M so eventually he played to the back of his "baseball card". I'm hoping JP will do the same and more (for Siena standards) very soon. |
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Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Feb 25, 2015 18:24:59 GMT -5
I think people need to be patient. This was a complete rebuild that I expected and least 3 seasons to fix. The CBI run was a red herring. Look how long it took Ali Jaques to turn around the womens' program. They will roll with a full healthy roster of Ali's recruits next season. I'm optimistic the men will be competitive again in year 3 and rolling by year 4. Patsos has to have a whole team of players recruited for his style. He can't press, run, or play man to man with much of the current team. A whole class of tough athletic players in the Patsos mold arrives next season.
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Post by siena12077 on Feb 25, 2015 19:53:48 GMT -5
I don't think the cbi was a mistake. I think it is going a long way to temper some of the bad feelings of this season. Right you are!!! Patsos is feeling the heat now how much would he be feeling it without the CBI title? No, he would not have gotten fired but lets just say the pressure on him would have been 10 fold. Still, the expectations are going to be to produce a winning team next year at the minimum which I think he knows and I fully expect to happen. The CBI title and its good will has now worn off with this season. I never thought Mitch was going to turn it around because he just had too much bad history going against him. No guarantee Jimmy will but his last two years at Loyola produced a 47-21 record with two postseason bids including the MAAC tournament title. Plus, he turned an 8 win team into 20 wins (15 wins even before the CBI). At least he has a resume to stand on and believe that he has the capability to get Siena back again. Look at Mark Turgeon (JP's buddie) at Maryland. Although he had three winning seasons (two of them at 17-15) he was .500 or below in conference every year. For a high-major like Maryland that is equivalent to having a losing overall season at Siena. But he has got it going this year. He was a proven winner at Wichita State and Texas A&M so eventually he played to the back of his "baseball card". I'm hoping JP will do the same and more (for Siena standards) very soon. First, the CBI title doesn't really mean anything. In fact it probably made matters worse by raising expectations of the fans for his second season. And the back of Patsos' baseball card to date reads: mediocre, roster turnover, good recruiter, stubborn...going back to his early Loyola days I'm in no way saying he's a bad coach, that I don't enjoy the craziness that is coach Patsos, or think the program is on the decline. I expect up and down seasons usually near the middle of the pack with him though. Hope he proves me wrong. He could win just enough to always stick around though |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 20:29:17 GMT -5
Strongly agree that the CBI run unreasonably elevated expectations, especially when considered with the loss of essentially nothing in terms of returning experience (no offense to Steven Cruz - I know his heart and leadership would have been a huge help this year!) and an incoming crop of very promising new players. The injuries to Imoh and Brett quickly exposed the House of Cards that we had enjoyed as last season ended. That expose was masked this year, IMO, by Jimmy's sideline and media behavior and it was easy to jump to the "he can't coach and they can't recruit" reasons as the cause for this year's less than stellar performances. As SaintsFan has so tirelessly and eloquently stated all year, our talent level is, at best marginal and any obstacle can and has pushed us to the losing side. I hope the kids that have committed are even half as good as their current reviews proclaim them - if they are, we should be ok. More often than not, new recruits are LeBron like until early September when they morph into "projects" - I hope that is not the case next fall. A steady progress through the OOC season next year should restore confidence and refloat the Siena boat. If we don't see that, then all bets are off. We have little choice but to wait and see, and maybe make a trip or two to the new Grotto on campus.
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Post by MTS on Feb 25, 2015 21:00:44 GMT -5
I think people need to be patient. This was a complete rebuild that I expected and least 3 seasons to fix. The CBI run was a red herring. Look how long it took Ali Jaques to turn around the womens' program. They will roll with a full healthy roster of Ali's recruits next season. I'm optimistic the men will be competitive again in year 3 and rolling by year 4. Patsos has to have a whole team of players recruited for his style. He can't press, run, or play man to man with much of the current team. A whole class of tough athletic players in the Patsos mold arrives next season. I would agree. Patsos inherited a much worse situation than either Hewitt or McCaffery did. That said, I think we have the potential to be pretty good next year especially if we get two solid contributors from the freshmen class. With the four frosh and Bisping/Silas back that's 6 players on the roster that weren't here this year (well Brett was for 6 games). That is a lot of added talent not counting any other plays being added to the team before next year. Put that together with a very good PG in Marquis Wright, Lavon Long (who clearly is better than he is showing playing hurt) and the emergence of Javion Ogunyemi who should be one of the best big men in the MAAC next year - and you should have a winning team and a contender in the MAAC. I should point out too that Sienafan (along with Saintsfan) was not originally enamored with the choice of Patsos as head coach so he certainly isn't just drinking the kool-aid. I thought that should be pointed out. |
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Feb 25, 2015 21:54:54 GMT -5
We stay healthy, we're right in the mix at the top next year along with Monmouth, Manhattan and Iona. I expect our defensive attitude, and performance, to be much better with Bisping, Silas, Nico and Kenny on the floor.
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slim
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Post by slim on Feb 25, 2015 22:48:53 GMT -5
We stay healthy, we're right in the mix at the top next year along with Monmouth, Manhattan and Iona. I expect our defensive attitude, and performance, to be much better with Bisping, Silas, Nico and Kenny on the floor. So are you saying Iona, Manhattan, Siena, Monmouth are the top teams next year? |
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Post by MTS on Feb 25, 2015 23:13:24 GMT -5
We stay healthy, we're right in the mix at the top next year along with Monmouth, Manhattan and Iona. I expect our defensive attitude, and performance, to be much better with Bisping, Silas, Nico and Kenny on the floor. So are you saying Iona, Manhattan, Siena, Monmouth are the top teams next year? Without looking in depth at the rosters I'd say that's a pretty good guess. Iona only loses Laury - should be the top team. Monmouth loses a couple of decent players but return Robinson and Jones and add a transfer from Oklahoma. Siena loses Poole and Hymes but Bisping and Silas return. Manhattan loses Emmy and Storres. Quinnipiac will lose Hearst, Drame, Conti and Harris their top 4 scorers. SPU loses Dominique, Washington and Gaskins their top 3 scorers. Rider loses Lopez Marist loses Lewis and Curry Canisius loses Heath and Williams Niagara and Fairfield bring everyone back of significance. |
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Feb 26, 2015 0:17:23 GMT -5
We stay healthy, we're right in the mix at the top next year along with Monmouth, Manhattan and Iona. I expect our defensive attitude, and performance, to be much better with Bisping, Silas, Nico and Kenny on the floor. So are you saying Iona, Manhattan, Siena, Monmouth are the top teams next year? If someone asked me right now, yes, they'd be my top 4 teams for '15-'16. Ask me again in September when the rosters are finalized  |
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Post by drumfish on Feb 26, 2015 10:03:55 GMT -5
I think we're in the mix next year. However, I have never been impressed with Jimmy's on court demeanor - enough so that if I were the parent of a mid-major bound player, that would be a detractor. I'm looking for leadership and his success as a coaching practitioner is nowhere near successful enough to offset his antics on and around the court.
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olddave
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Post by olddave on Feb 26, 2015 11:05:06 GMT -5
At Manhattan the big one leaving is Andujar, isn't he the one that was killing us
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 11:06:43 GMT -5
Outside of Iona, the MAAC is bad this year. I'm not overly impressed with anyone in the MAAC.
If you look at Kenpom...after Iona and Siena, the next best offense is Quinny at 176th in the country. Most are 200th or worse.
All but 3 MAAC teams are ranked top 200 in defense...
Teams are getting by on defense ...HOWEVER those numbers are somewhat inflated by the fact that all these bad offenses are facing each other.
It's just a big circle of crappy basketball this year as the talent in the league is being slowly drained.
The fact that Siena is struggling so much this year is a big kick in the nuts.
Manhattan sucks. A team with a 173 Kenpom would have finished 6th last year or 7th the year before. They could be about to finish 2nd. It's insulting.
If Saints stayed exactly the same as last year...when they had the 5th best Kenpom rating....they'd be 2nd right now....where they should be.
Manhattan loses DO EVERYTHING Emmy and Stores. They have a lot of booting of players in order to replace. They have 8 big men for next year...5 of which don't rebound..2 of which will be frosh...and just 4 guards....2 of which can't shoot and one of those coming off injury.
I don't see how they should be good unless they land some impact guards to help Richards FAST.
It is SO easy to go from 11 to 2nd right now. And it's an indictment on the coaching and recruiting of the conference as a whole.
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olddave
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Post by olddave on Feb 26, 2015 11:21:43 GMT -5
ok KK safely say we all agree. Real question is why the MAAC id down. Is it the coaching, recruiting or just cyclical as college hoops tends to be. Generally MAAC plays the style of ball kids want to play. AE on the other hand is more slowdown grind it out, nothing wrong with it just a different style. How many coach's in the MAAC are on the hot seat? Fairfield? Lot's of rebuilding in the MAAC, Clueless just seem to be able to reload. Comments folks
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