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Post by playerparentcoach on Feb 23, 2015 10:39:01 GMT -5
This is exactly what I am talking about. It is a grown man war in the paint and Lavon does not back down. The problem is all eyes are on him so its usually a double foul, foul on him, or no call. I have film on this stuff I agree with this in general, but this play happened nowhere near the paint, IIRC. In fact, wasn't this outside of the three point line? Look at the bench it looks like they are near the FT line. Anyway stuff goes on all over the court. And the big men bang all night. If the officials would be consistent the game would flow better and fouls wouldn't decide so much. Lavon played an entire half hard without getting a foul. He then picks up 5 in 10 mins in the 2nd playing the same way. I did not break down each foul but I.knew when JO got called for his 4th defending on the box that Lavon was not going to make it...that same play was allowed all game on both sides. So I am.not blaming the refs for his fouls nor for our losing... The other teams are playing under the same conditions... And the other players are able to figure out how to not foul out of so many games with the same refs so there is no excuse
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2015 10:51:31 GMT -5
In my opinion, Lavon is just pissing off the refs with those arm grab plays. Holding an opponents' arm like that to make it seem like they fouled you just makes him look foolish. I mean we know about the CBI body slam. But he always does that thing where he holds their arm in dramatic fashion. Just get into the game. If you're trying to buy calls, fake out refs, or showing them up...you're just asking for more fouls against you.
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olddave
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Post by olddave on Feb 23, 2015 10:54:31 GMT -5
Hertuer made an interesting remark several times. The caliber of players in that they do not shoot all that well has made the officiating of a game even more tenuous. That is that the players not relying on their outside shot drive into the lane and throw their body at the defender trying to get a foul called. One of the reasons why games have more fouls called and more drawn out. His opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2015 11:12:31 GMT -5
Hertuer made an interesting remark several times. The caliber of players in that they do not shoot all that well has made the officiating of a game even more tenuous. That is that the players not relying on their outside shot drive into the lane and throw their body at the defender trying to get a foul called. One of the reasons why games have more fouls called and more drawn out. His opinion. I don't mind doing that on the offensive side of the ball. Saint's are 21st in the nation at that. That's good. The real issue is certain coaches do either or the other of the following: 1.) They play physical man to man and guard close. Thought is to make teams beat you on contested shots and tire teams out. --more fouls 2.) Play a zone, prevent easy 2s and make teams beat you from the outside--avoid fouls. Siena is essentially playing a D that is both Mitch AND Jimmy combined and it's awful. Mitch played a zone, rebound well, and never committed fouls. Give up a lot of threes. Jimmy plays a zone, rebound bad, and commit a ton of fouls. Still, give up a lot of threes. Or Jimmy plays man and presses, gets steals, commits fouls, rebounds bad, etc. Essentially, Jimmy is doing the worst of both worlds here this year. Fran managed to play man and press, force turnovers, while rebounding, all without fouling and got the best of all worlds. Part of that was talent and athleticism, part of that was style. Fran and Mitch's teams just don't foul.
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Post by MTS on Feb 23, 2015 11:36:01 GMT -5
I agree with that post KK... Jimmy is not a zone coach he's a man-to-man coach forced to play zone because of lack of depth and lack of athleticism. Next year I hope with the additions to the program we can play 80% man to man defense. Siena is always going to foul more under Jimmy but if you can keep it within reason it can be manageable.
Siena's offense has been good enough to be over .500 but I've never seen a worse defensive team in 20 years of following Siena basketball.
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siena95
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Post by siena95 on Feb 23, 2015 15:17:21 GMT -5
This is exactly what I am talking about. It is a grown man war in the paint and Lavon does not back down. The problem is all eyes are on him so its usually a double foul, foul on him, or no call. I have film on this stuff I agree with this in general, but this play happened nowhere near the paint, IIRC. In fact, wasn't this outside of the three point line? and here is the thing, if you are a marked man, you better damn well learn to adjust your game, or it will be 2 more years of DQ's and infinite minutes on the bench.
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siena95
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Post by siena95 on Feb 23, 2015 15:22:03 GMT -5
I had friends in town for Manhattan game... siena grads, hadn't seen the team much this year.... THREE times i said "oh up, we are in zone and shot clock winding down, wide open 3 coming"... ALL THREE resulted in wide open made 3's.... and what sucks is on two, the man in the corner NEVER moved, no play ran, he just sat and waited for someone to make a mistake or just float away in the zone..... team hasn't improved on some very basic things all year. can't blame injuries 25 games in when upper classmen are getting toasted in a zone defense.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2015 15:26:05 GMT -5
I agree with this in general, but this play happened nowhere near the paint, IIRC. In fact, wasn't this outside of the three point line? and here is the thing, if you are a marked man, you better damn well learn to adjust your game, or it will be 2 more years of DQ's and infinite minutes on the bench. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't we hear before the season began that he had worked on the fouling issues and we would see a difference? Haven't seen anything like that! Now the party line is "that's his game" so live with it. I guess when you look at it, we got a bargain - we wasted two one-and-one half year scholarships on Wolfe and Cole so having one go to a 66% available starter doesn't look so bad......or does it?
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Post by playerparentcoach on Feb 23, 2015 15:28:40 GMT -5
I agree with this in general, but this play happened nowhere near the paint, IIRC. In fact, wasn't this outside of the three point line? and here is the thing, if you are a marked man, you better damn well learn to adjust your game, or it will be 2 more years of DQ's and infinite minutes on the bench. He will be fine. Its a 4 year process
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2015 15:39:01 GMT -5
and here is the thing, if you are a marked man, you better damn well learn to adjust your game, or it will be 2 more years of DQ's and infinite minutes on the bench. He will be fine. Its a 4 year process I wonder how many D1 players have achieved over 500 fouls in their 4 year careers? We may have the only one. Go Siena can use it as a new tracking marker for Siena players in the future. It's sort of like an inverse 1000 pt player - theoretically, over 500 fouls could result in over 1000 pts, albeit spread over many, many players!
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Post by playerparentcoach on Feb 23, 2015 15:45:52 GMT -5
Crazy thing is he is not the only player headed there on our team. Look at the numbers
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siena95
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Post by siena95 on Feb 23, 2015 16:19:19 GMT -5
If the team as a whole doesn't improve immensely in the foul department, they will never be anything other then an also-ran.... you can't have 1/2 your team in foul trouble and a parade to the FT line for the other team every game.... its not a recipe for success.
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Post by greenblood on Feb 23, 2015 17:39:42 GMT -5
Someone better tell JP that it's a four year process; I thought we were going to get instantly better next year with our incoming impact freshmen. Suddenly I feel like Sally Schizophrenia....
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Post by playerparentcoach on Feb 23, 2015 17:50:54 GMT -5
We will improve but the road is bumpy
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2015 18:01:43 GMT -5
We will improve but the road is bumpy True. If I remember the Canisius game (God I wish I could forget it) correctly, there were two major bumps on one possession and the play hadn't even driven to the area of the foul line extended. That was just one game, actually it wasn't much of a game but...... Two more years of that and I'm officially toast or toasted as the case may be!
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