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Post by hockeyguy on Oct 4, 2014 22:56:08 GMT -5
th24, Nobody smart pays sticker price for college. The only students paying full tuition are the ones with very low SAT scores and very rich parents (or parents dumb enough to cosign on a $160,000 loan). Siena, like most private colleges, greatly discounts tuition. At some colleges the average student pays only 40% of the advertised full tuition. In other words, the average discount is over 60%. How is this possible you might ask. Very few of the scholarships and financial aid offers come from endowed funds; Most scholarships and aid are just a tuition reductions, i.e., discounts. A college with a $130M endowment is considered "lower-middle class." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Atlantic_Athletic_ConferenceDefinitely some "poor folk" in the MAAC... Look at Iona, Mahattan and St Pete's. Combined, less than Siena. Then there is Qin, Marist and FF... all more than, or nearly, double Siena. Tuition seems to be substanially less than the $50K noted elsewhere. Also look at their academic rankings, you don't have to spend quite as much to get better students when you have a good academic reputation, plus the breadth of majors offered gives the rest of the schools an advantage. Siena is what it is, a small, academically modest, Catholic, liberal arts school, in upstate NY, and in today's job environment a liberal arts degree is not going to get you very far.
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Post by districtballer on Oct 13, 2014 14:06:29 GMT -5
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th24
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Post by th24 on Oct 14, 2014 5:28:30 GMT -5
th24, Nobody smart pays sticker price for college. The only students paying full tuition are the ones with very low SAT scores and very rich parents (or parents dumb enough to cosign on a $160,000 loan). Siena, like most private colleges, greatly discounts tuition. At some colleges the average student pays only 40% of the advertised full tuition. In other words, the average discount is over 60%. How is this possible you might ask. Very few of the scholarships and financial aid offers come from endowed funds; Most scholarships and aid are just a tuition reductions, i.e., discounts. A college with a $130M endowment is considered "lower-middle class." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Atlantic_Athletic_ConferenceDefinitely some "poor folk" in the MAAC... Look at Iona, Mahattan and St Pete's. Combined, less than Siena. Then there is Qin, Marist and FF... all more than, or nearly, double Siena. Tuition seems to be substanially less than the $50K noted elsewhere. Also look at their academic rankings, you don't have to spend quite as much to get better students when you have a good academic reputation, plus the breadth of majors offered gives the rest of the schools an advantage. Siena is what it is, a small, academically modest, Catholic, liberal arts school, in upstate NY, and in today's job environment a liberal arts degree is not going to get you very far. th24, Nobody smart pays sticker price for college. The only students paying full tuition are the ones with very low SAT scores and very rich parents (or parents dumb enough to cosign on a $160,000 loan?! Talk about a loaded statement! So apparently you know the stats on who pays what at Siena, SAT scores and who has rich parents ?! And Siena is NOT a " poor little college " anymore ! Not with million dollar building projects going up left and right!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2014 11:25:53 GMT -5
th24. Did you read the Times Union story about how they are cutting salary and benefits because of a budget deficit? Maybe because they spend too much money on building projects or salaries. Who knows, but this doesn't seem like a rich college to me.
We can argue about whether or not Siena spends money wisely, but you cannot judge the wealth of a college by the tuition, which is what you mentioned.
Again, it is well known that many private colleges set a tuition that is much higher than what the vast majority of students actually pay. Its not even like a Chevy dealership. What the average student pays is way lower than the sticker price.
Tuition reductions are based on merit (scholarships, many of which are not endowed) and need (financial aid tuition discounts, not loans), so it is common sense that those paying full tuition tend to be students with low merit (low SATs and low grades) and low financial need (high income, ability to take out big loans or lots of savings). I didn't mean to offend anyone.
Anyway, the endowment relative to the size (and operating budget) of a school is the more important factor in determining if a college is rich and can afford something like a $20M practice facility.
There are schools with incredibly high tuition (Bennington College for example) that are are barely solvent and would struggle to fund a $2M project. Then, there are schools with very low tuition that have incredibly high endowments (Texas A&M) where $20M is chump change. While these are extreme examples, my point is that sticker price tuition tells you very little about a school's actual wealth.
Again, we can argue about whether or not Siena spends money wisely, but with 3000 students and an endowment of about $130M, Siena is not rich. Richer than Canisius. Poorer than Fairfield. In my humble opinion, Siena is lower middle class among private colleges.
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th24
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Post by th24 on Oct 14, 2014 11:37:46 GMT -5
Poorer than Fairfield? In my humble opinion, Siena is lower middle class among private colleges?
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Post by gorvy on Oct 14, 2014 12:33:26 GMT -5
We are being served up as a sacrificial lamb.... To Bryant. That says it all.
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Post by MTS on Oct 14, 2014 14:38:38 GMT -5
We are being served up as a sacrificial lamb.... To Bryant. That says it all. Don't like playing those games in Rhode Island but look at it this way we should win those games and it will help your tournament resume to boast more road wins. The other two yes they will likely be losses but again they help your RPI. It's an RPI game that we need to play correctly. This year the RPI isn't going to be that good even with a ton of wins (barring a few teams on Siena's OOC schedule far exceeding expectations) but next year the non-league schedule could be conducive to a top RPI should we win most of the games outside of the two big time road games. Patsos also said on Rodger Wyland's show that Siena isn't necessarily playing at Georgetown and either VCU/Duke. It will be any two of the following four Georgetown, Duke, Wisconsin, VCU.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 6:56:48 GMT -5
Poorer than Fairfield? In my humble opinion, Siena is lower middle class among private colleges? Th24, Fairfield's endowment is $293M and they have about 5000 students, which is roughly $58,000 per student. Siena's endowment is $139M and they have about 3000 students, which is roughly $46,000 per student. Fairfield is the richer school, not by much, but they are more capable of funding a $20M athletic building. What makes Siena great is not that we are a wealthy school, but that we complete even though we aren't wealthy. In fact, we kick Fairfield's ass in a number of different categories (athletically and academically). Anyway, I'm upset that Siena keeps jacking up the tuition because it's not in the spirit of what Siena is all about. Siena is all about attracting and developing students who work hard, not students who are born rich where mommy and daddy can buy them a fun college experience. But, my point is that Siena did not become twice as wealthy by doubling the tuition. Instead, they likely doubled the average tuition discount. It’s a gimmick. Parents and students feel good when they get $32K in scholarships to a school that costs $48K. This feels much better than getting $0K in scholarships to a school that costs $16K. Both situations net the same outcome, which is $16K for the college. I didn't mean to offend anyone who paid full price for Siena. Years ago, Siena did not play this game. They had a reasonable tuition and most good students paid close to full price. It was a more honest approach. I know it seems utterly stupid to characterize a school with $139M as being lower-middle class, but this is relative to the competition and comparison group. Siena is in fact classified as a national liberal arts college by U.S. News. colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-collegesSiena is in the middle of this pack, but they are in the bottom half with respect to wealth (endowment per student). And, Siena is also in the bottom half when the comparison group is NCAA Division I schools. Finally, because Siena applies for federal grants, their financial records are publicly available and floating around: www.dacbond.com/dacContent/doc.jsp?id=0900bbc78011a6bcUltimately, I think you are right: Siena can find the money for the ARC in the budget. Siena's biggest expense is salaries/benefits, which are in fact getting cut. So, perhaps Siena is doing exactly what you suggest: Finding the money. But, rich schools do NOT need to cut salaries and retirement benefits to fund athletic building projects. The truth hurts, which is why I understand your reaction.
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Post by billmurray on Oct 15, 2014 7:26:42 GMT -5
You can be sure that the money saved by cutting salaries and benefits will not be used to build anything. It balances the operating budget. If I were Patsos I would make a donation to Siena equal to the faculty and staff cuts.
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Oct 15, 2014 16:33:20 GMT -5
You can be sure that the money saved by cutting salaries and benefits will not be used to build anything. It balances the operating budget. If I were Patsos I would make a donation to Siena equal to the faculty and staff cuts. First of all I hope you are kidding? If not, you are awfully generous with someone else's money. I suggest that you personally make up the difference.
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Post by IndianSaint on Oct 15, 2014 18:23:20 GMT -5
You can be sure that the money saved by cutting salaries and benefits will not be used to build anything. It balances the operating budget. If I were Patsos I would make a donation to Siena equal to the faculty and staff cuts. First of all I hope you are kidding? If not, you are awfully generous with someone else's money. I suggest that you personally make up the difference. I just assumed Bill was referring to the 2% reduction/cut in pension funding (meaning Jimmy should take a similar 2% cut). But, if you're correct that Jimmy make up the entire deficit, then I agree with you.
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Post by billmurray on Oct 16, 2014 12:11:26 GMT -5
First of all I hope you are kidding? If not, you are awfully generous with someone else's money. I suggest that you personally make up the difference. I just assumed Bill was referring to the 2% reduction/cut in pension funding (meaning Jimmy should take a similar 2% cut). But, if you're correct that Jimmy make up the entire deficit, then I agree with you. I was going with the 2% figure. As for being generous I would guess it is not unusual to donate at least 2% to charity. I'm sure Patsos already does that or more.
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Post by MTS on Oct 16, 2014 12:28:10 GMT -5
I just assumed Bill was referring to the 2% reduction/cut in pension funding (meaning Jimmy should take a similar 2% cut). But, if you're correct that Jimmy make up the entire deficit, then I agree with you. I was going with the 2% figure. As for being generous I would guess it is not unusual to donate at least 2% to charity. I'm sure Patsos already does that or more. If Patsos donates 2% of his salary to charity he's a real Saint (no pun intended). The Vice President of the United States donated 0.2% of his salary over the past decade. abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=5791846Of course Patsos does make more money and is not nearly as whacky. LOL
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Post by billmurray on Oct 16, 2014 15:34:51 GMT -5
I was going with the 2% figure. As for being generous I would guess it is not unusual to donate at least 2% to charity. I'm sure Patsos already does that or more. If Patsos donates 2% of his salary to charity he's a real Saint (no pun intended). The Vice President of the United States donated 0.2% of his salary over the past decade. abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=5791846Of course Patsos does make more money and is not nearly as whacky. LOL According to IRS stats of those itemizing deductions those with a AGI between 100k and 200k on average give 2.6% to charity Those below 100k give 3.6% and those over 200k give 3.1%. By your definition, that a lot of saints.
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Oct 16, 2014 17:24:41 GMT -5
If Patsos donates 2% of his salary to charity he's a real Saint (no pun intended). The Vice President of the United States donated 0.2% of his salary over the past decade. abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=5791846Of course Patsos does make more money and is not nearly as whacky. LOL According to IRS stats of those itemizing deductions those with a AGI between 100k and 200k on average give 2.6% to charity Those below 100k give 3.6% and those over 200k give 3.1%. By your definition, that a lot of saints. Some of those folks donate clothes and other stuff that they don't want that is assigned a value by the charitable organization. Then those generous folks get a charitable deduction for giving away stuff they don't want.
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