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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2014 19:31:29 GMT -5
Thinking today while procrastinating: SG scenarios
If Cole continues to be his inefficient self as he was at Coppin St. ...I could actually foresee a scenario where he becomes the last guard in the rotation...or part of a separate mini rotation.
White is the better defender. All he'd have to do is finish his 2's at over 40% and voila easy leapfrog. He plays hard.
Thinking further I can see Hymes, White, and Cole as the 3 "quick leash, high energy, high impact" guys. Jimmy puts them in and sees if they got it that day. They could be always in and out of the doghouse. They all are gunners. They come in and make a big impact one way or the other and put up a ton of shots. They have great games, then they have games where you're like 'I never want to see them again.'
These are the three guys who will likely test Jimmy's patience the most I'd think. We need their good days but they have each proven to be somewhat inconsistent in certain areas.
Oliver and Paige seem more the steady types who do their jobs, make some shots, and don't take a lot of risks. Glue guys who have more of a reserved presence.
If Jimmy puts these guys out there and they're not making mistakes...they become the fallback options in most scenarios since they're big balanced guards. At least Paige is on paper and in video, we'll see. It's like the Wignot effect. You just kept putting him out there cause he just does his thing.
The 3 high risk/high reward players then almost become part of mini rotation themselves depending on their hotstreaks and individual matchups.
As I'm thinking about it more, I tend to wonder whether maybe the prior assumptions with regards to playing time of these three are valid. They could be all over the place. Huge minutes one game, zero the next. If Cole fails, Hymes could still have his niche. White too given the more passive nature of Oliver and Paige.
Also, much could be determined by Brandwijk. His defensive success could allow a big lineup to be feasible.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Jul 14, 2014 20:30:29 GMT -5
Nice but we really dont know what Paige will bring. Oliver is proven. I dont see them on the same level right now.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 3:09:01 GMT -5
PPC one of these days in the not to distant future some "wunderkind" is going to join the team and he's going to play starter minutes right from the get go. I know you believe in player development but not all upper classmen are better.
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Post by Tony on Jul 15, 2014 4:39:54 GMT -5
You are correct Racersedge—but in this case PPC is right KK has been trying to put Paige ahead of Cole and on same level or slightly ahead of Oliver and White all preseason
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Post by playerparentcoach on Jul 15, 2014 6:54:22 GMT -5
PPC one of these days in the not to distant future some "wunderkind" is going to join the team and he's going to play starter minutes right from the get go. I know you believe in player development but not all upper classmen are better. That already happened with Patsos' first class and we had 2 players make the All Rookie team. It would be great if we could have that every year. It just doesnt work that way for obvious reasons. We are looking for depth and will take the best available of what we need. Playing time will be earned in practice and my money is on the returners. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 8:11:33 GMT -5
In an over-under bet on Paige, I would take the under at 10MPG in a heartbeat. Paige is the type of player who will practice hard and develop to earn minutes next year. He knows that there are more than a few MAAC junior and senior starters who averaged under 10MPG as a freshmen. There is no shame it that. Whereas, White, Oliver and Cole are very much competing for Poole's starting position in 2015-16. Its going to be very hard for Paige to beat these three for minues. On Siena's team from two years ago, Paige might have gotten starter minutes as a freshman, but not on this team.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 8:53:08 GMT -5
I don't know what Paige will do. Nobody does. I'm not saying the kid's a superstar. I just think that there is a chance he gets significant minutes off the bench.
The kid seems to have a solid jumper and is seems good from the line. I've seen him hit threes consisently, use the backboard on corner midrange when he should, and exhibit some ability to attack the rim and finish thru contact. If this kid had been here last October instead of White this entire board would be fawning over him just like you did with White and perhaps moreso.
But now, everybody is putting Cole way ahead of everyone. It just seems to me that he's not as far ahead as everyone seems to think.
In a battle between the SGs, you have to consider the whole package. If Cole is not separating himself on defense and Oliver and Paige are shooting better...why is he assumed to beat out the 2 shooters? In a head-to-head vs White...if neither are shooters and White is defending and getting to the line...why assume Cole wins out?
I'm just trying to look at it objectively. I know it doesn't fit into the prescribed Patrick Cole SupaStar belief but I don't usually go with the grain so why start now.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Jul 15, 2014 17:40:42 GMT -5
We have a pretty good team. Cant wait for the season to start
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Post by siena12077 on Jul 15, 2014 19:50:23 GMT -5
I don't know what Paige will do. Nobody does. I'm not saying the kid's a superstar. I just think that there is a chance he gets significant minutes off the bench. The kid seems to have a solid jumper and is seems good from the line. I've seen him hit threes consisently, use the backboard on corner midrange when he should, and exhibit some ability to attack the rim and finish thru contact. If this kid had been here last October instead of White this entire board would be fawning over him just like you did with White and perhaps moreso. But now, everybody is putting Cole way ahead of everyone. It just seems to me that he's not as far ahead as everyone seems to think. In a battle between the SGs, you have to consider the whole package. If Cole is not separating himself on defense and Oliver and Paige are shooting better...why is he assumed to beat out the 2 shooters? In a head-to-head vs White...if neither are shooters and White is defending and getting to the line...why assume Cole wins out? I'm just trying to look at it objectively. I know it doesn't fit into the prescribed Patrick Cole SupaStar belief but I don't usually go with the grain so why start now. Maybe Lavon is the odd guard out. If he isn't posting up smaller players and can't stay with quicker guys on defense? |
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Post by MTS on Jul 15, 2014 20:01:19 GMT -5
If Paige can play as a frosh then Jimmy will find him time. But he will have to be really good because he has a lot of competition in front of him (Cole, White, Oliver, Hymes). Last year we needed big things from the freshmen this year it's more of a luxury whatever we get from them. Teams that expect to contend for championships don't want to have to rely on freshmen.
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Post by Tony on Jul 16, 2014 5:45:03 GMT -5
A few things other than KK— I don’t think anyone has been saying Cole is a superstar- he is however a very solid player that will help us this year
As for freshmen getting minutes- you always hope they can contribute – much more difficult for a freshman to get time on a veteran team – particularly if team returns everyone- adds a proven double digit scorer going into his 3rd season of college—starting the year Paige has Hymes/Poole/Cole/White/ Oliver ahead of him at the 2—and Long/Poole/Cole/White/Oliver at the 3. Brandwijk has a much better chance of making the rotation ( in fact I expect him to)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2014 9:14:23 GMT -5
A few things other than KK— I don’t think anyone has been saying Cole is a superstar- he is however a very solid player that will help us this year As for freshmen getting minutes- you always hope they can contribute – much more difficult for a freshman to get time on a veteran team – particularly if team returns everyone- adds a proven double digit scorer going into his 3rd season of college—starting the year Paige has Hymes/Poole/Cole/White/ Oliver ahead of him at the 2—and Long/Poole/Cole/White/Oliver at the 3. Brandwijk has a much better chance of making the rotation ( in fact I expect him to) The competition will be tough, I know. Especially since I think Brandwijk might actually start. Him starting would be be Lavon's dream come true. I actually like Silas starting...in a perfect world. He rebounds and defends the best and would have 100 blocks in starters minutes. That's elite. But you have to shift things around when you have 2 non-shooters already in the lineup. It's sad for our defense and sad for Imoh. But Long and Wright are also good players. Wright, Poole, Long, Bisping, Brandwijk makes a lot of sense if you're dead set on playing big with Lavon at the three. You can spread the floor in an unconventional way to make up for Wright and Lavon's lack of shooting. It makes a lot of sense. You still miss out on the dribble driving a little but the lineup has the inherent skills to overcome that. Brandwijk just has to seize the opportunity that's clearly there. If he sucks it up, we're in the same situation as last year and we'll be trading post defense for scoring...as we go small and try to work in more shooters. This situation will have a huge effect on PT for the wings. Hymes, Cole, Oliver, Paige/White, Silas/JO isn't a bad 2nd team. There's a lot of scoring oompf there and some post defense to boot. Plus, you have three guys who can handle the ball. You play the Patsos grind it out smart ball with the starters and you have the 2nd team outscore the other team's bench. |
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Post by playerparentcoach on Jul 16, 2014 12:03:06 GMT -5
I don't know what Paige will do. Nobody does. I'm not saying the kid's a superstar. I just think that there is a chance he gets significant minutes off the bench. The kid seems to have a solid jumper and is seems good from the line. I've seen him hit threes consisently, use the backboard on corner midrange when he should, and exhibit some ability to attack the rim and finish thru contact. If this kid had been here last October instead of White this entire board would be fawning over him just like you did with White and perhaps moreso. But now, everybody is putting Cole way ahead of everyone. It just seems to me that he's not as far ahead as everyone seems to think. In a battle between the SGs, you have to consider the whole package. If Cole is not separating himself on defense and Oliver and Paige are shooting better...why is he assumed to beat out the 2 shooters? In a head-to-head vs White...if neither are shooters and White is defending and getting to the line...why assume Cole wins out? I'm just trying to look at it objectively. I know it doesn't fit into the prescribed Patrick Cole SupaStar belief but I don't usually go with the grain so why start now. Maybe Lavon is the odd guard out. If he isn't posting up smaller players and can't stay with quicker guys on defense? Great point. Lavon will have to continue to improve and beat guys out to keep his starting 3 spot no doubt. And I expect him to |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2014 12:31:22 GMT -5
Maybe Lavon is the odd guard out. If he isn't posting up smaller players and can't stay with quicker guys on defense? Great point. Lavon will have to continue to improve and beat guys out to keep his starting 3 spot no doubt. And I expect him to A case could actually be made to bench Lavon. If one of the SGs were to become a guy that you couldn't keep off the floor. It could make sense to bench him. He really makes the entire lineup unconventional. He is sometimes as much of a weakness as he is a strength. Lavon is our enforcer though. His main value often is that he just wears teams down. He runs around like a freight train and frustrates teams. He increases the team's toughness quotient. |
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Post by $cott on Jul 16, 2014 12:34:03 GMT -5
Great point. Lavon will have to continue to improve and beat guys out to keep his starting 3 spot no doubt. And I expect him to A case could actually be made to bench Lavon. If one of the SGs were to become a guy that you couldn't keep off the floor. It could make sense to bench him. He really makes the entire lineup unconventional. He is sometimes as much of a weakness as he is a strength. Lavon is our enforcer though. His main value often is that he just wears teams down. He runs around like a freight train and frustrates teams. He increases the team's toughness quotient. I don't see a scenario where that would make a ton of sense. Typically where we most need shooters on the floor are when we are going against a zone. Against a zone is where Lavon thrives at the high post with his ability to hit the jumper, drive and dish, or drive and score. If Lavon didn't have that aspect of his game then you could make a case that you need more shooters out there but I think he's a perfect fit at the 4 against a zone. |
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