Rank the players, Defense

[Deleted]

Here's a discussion just for kicks.

Rank the team by their overall defense....disregarding rebounding. No one ever talks about defense.

I'm just taking a guess on the newbies too.

Rank---Player----------------Stl + BLK/30 Mins
1-------Imoh Silas------------3.75
2-------Marquis Wright------1.73
3-------Brett Bisping---------1.70
4-------Javion Ogunyemi----2.50
5-------Maurice White-------1.63
6-------Lavon Long-----------1.47
7-------Willem Brandwijk----NA
8-------Pat Cole---------------1.69 (good steal rate)
9-------Jimmy Paige-----------NA
10------Rob Poole-------------1.07
11------Michael Wolfe--------1.16
12------Ryan Oliver-----------0.54 (1.08 as a frosh)
13------Evan Hymes-----------0.76 (got quite a few 5 sec calls last year)
14------Cam Gottfried---------NA



I would argue that Bisping could make a case for being our best overall defensive player last year when considering charges and fouls committed.
To say Bisping drew at least 1 charge a game might be being too conservative. If you include that, his ratio jumps to 2.8. There were games he drew like 3 or 4. Those are more valuable than blocks.

Long also draws about 1 charge every other game or so I'd say, but he also commits a lot of fouls. After that nobody else really draws them much at all.

Thoughts?

[Tony]

Good post—very hard to quantify defense with Stats. For instance Bisping is far from our best defensive player- he is probably slowest guy on team in terms of lateral quickness, very difficult for him to play man to man defense and he is usually last man down court - having said that Brett is a very good zone defense defender, and seldom makes silly fouls. Imoh, Maurice and Wright are very good at keeping their man in front of them, although Imoh usually fouls on pump fake – Lavon is pretty good if he can stop the silly fouls and Oliver—really started to get minutes late in the season—not only for his shooting but he made a commitment to playing defense

[SaintsFan]

Jul 2, 2014 5:44:40 GMT -5 Tony said:

Good post—very hard to quantify defense with Stats. For instance Bisping is far from our best defensive player- he is probably slowest guy on team in terms of lateral quickness, very difficult for him to play man to man defense and he is usually last man down court - having said that Brett is a very good zone defense defender, and seldom makes silly fouls. Imoh, Maurice and Wright are very good at keeping their man in front of them, although Imoh usually fouls on pump fake – Lavon is pretty good if he can stop the silly fouls and Oliver—really started to get minutes late in the season—not only for his shooting but he made a commitment to playing defense

agree with this whole post

[Deleted]

Jul 2, 2014 5:44:40 GMT -5 Tony said:

Good post—very hard to quantify defense with Stats. For instance Bisping is far from our best defensive player- he is probably slowest guy on team in terms of lateral quickness, very difficult for him to play man to man defense and he is usually last man down court - having said that Brett is a very good zone defense defender, and seldom makes silly fouls. Imoh, Maurice and Wright are very good at keeping their man in front of them, although Imoh usually fouls on pump fake – Lavon is pretty good if he can stop the silly fouls and Oliver—really started to get minutes late in the season—not only for his shooting but he made a commitment to playing defense

All true.

There is no doubt that in certain instances Bisping's man will go by him or over him, but if you really think about it, he was directly responsible for the most opponent turnovers of anyone on the team and that includes Wright (and Bisping played 300 or so less mins). There's a lot to be said for that. Blocks sometimes result in opponent turnovers. Drawn charges ALWAYS do. He also had more steals and blocks than Lavon without as much fouling. Just food for thought.

Oliver is a good position defender. He doesn't do anything particularly bad. He just isn't a defensive playmaker.

[IndianSaint]

I can't rank them but without reviewing any stats (simply going by what I saw during games) I'd have to put Long towards the top.

Long did so much of the little things & what I'd call the dirty work (not saying he's a dirty player just the dirty work others might take some plays off from performing).

So many times Long was defending bigger PFs & Cs. He'd guard them so well as to deny them from receiving an entry pass. He was physical to the point he may have warn them out by the last 5 mins of the game.

Yes he committed fouls, but he did so much more of the little things Jimmy always played him. Others who made mistakes/fouls sat longer before being reinserted. Jimmy realizes how valuable Long is (with his defense IMO plus he can score).

Long not only had steals but would dive for loose balls & balls going out of bounds. How many out of bonds saves did he have? I'd say 1 or 2 per game in addition to the ones he'd throw off the opposing player to save position.

These things don 't show up on stat sheets.

[Deleted]

I agree with Oliver at #12. Don't get me wrong, I love the kid's perimeter shot, but, has anyone else noticed that the athletic guards in the MAAC can blow by him at will. His lateral movement is Bisping-like. Also, he doesn't elevate well at all. When he tries to use his length to disrupt drives, 6'0" guards fly over him. His timely rebounding has more to do with a great ability to track perimeter misses and then box out smaller guards. I've seen him grab rebounds with his feet on the ground. Oliver reminds me of Allan Houston after he blew out his knees. That being said, Allan Houston could still go 6 for 9 from 3PT range on those knees. Oliver is going to be a superb replacement for Poole in 2015-16, but if he can improve defensively he will be a real difference maker in being able to beat teams like Iona.

[playerparentcoach]

Oliver is an underrated defender. He does a good job keeping his man in front of him using his length and solid footwork

[IndianSaint]

I know it was only one or two games but wasn't Oliver on Baron at the end of regulation and/or the OTs when we played Canisius at the TUC and again at the end of the game in the MAAC tournament? I thought I remembered everyone praising him on how good of a job he did defending Baron those two instances.

So he can defend, it just might not show on stats.

That's what gets me sometimes at the away games. So many times peoples preceiptions are skewed by what they hear on radio or read in paper or stats and miss the effort actually seen in games. I'm using this as a generalization and not to support that Oliver is some great defender but doesn't show on stat sheets.

You can see how certain players can frustrate others but they won't get credit on the stat sheet. Again, see Long play. How many times was he tangled with his man where the other guy got frustrated and caused a foul? I admit sometimes those got reviewed and it was a double foul but it shows the little defensive things Long dies that'll never show up on stat sheets. If he 's sussessful in frustrating his man, gets into his head so his man plays a lousy game; that stat doesn't show up anywhere other than the other guys lack of of fence. There's no stat for that, but the defense could have caused it.

I like stats but you can go too far without actually watching them play too.

[siena12077]

Oliver does struggle with lateral quickness and change of direction...which tells me his knees are still not there yet. He can defend on the perimeter at the MAAC level because he is a smart defender, who is 6'3 and has long arms. He sags off a bit and relies on his length to disrupt the opposing guards shots. He really struggles quite a bit when he is closing out to the 3 point line and bites on a fake. Happens in zone and man. If he doesn't bite on the fake then his man usually goes by him anyways cause he is up too tight. He needs to learn to close out more cautiously and still use that length to bother the shot. Still, a capable defender at this level.