th24
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Post by th24 on Feb 13, 2014 15:47:18 GMT -5
I think its very important for Oliver to be on the team next year! I dont necessarily disagree-- but what if Ryan actually wants to play? Ryan gets 12 min a game now- with Patrick Cole being eligible next year, the fact Mo White will continue to improve and arrival of Paige- where do you suggest the minutes come from? I see no way Ryan can play significant minutes next year. But hey maybe that's just me. I'm sure Jimmy will find him significant minutes-especially if he hit some 3 pointers!
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Post by Tony on Feb 13, 2014 16:01:51 GMT -5
I dont necessarily disagree-- but what if Ryan actually wants to play? Ryan gets 12 min a game now- with Patrick Cole being eligible next year, the fact Mo White will continue to improve and arrival of Paige- where do you suggest the minutes come from? I see no way Ryan can play significant minutes next year. But hey maybe that's just me. I'm sure Jimmy will find him significant minutes-especially if he hit some 3 pointers! Easy to say-- but considering Poole, Cole will both play significant minutes at 2 and 3-( taking up to 60 of available 80 min-- add that Long will play some there -- White will play-- Paige will probably get a few min, easy to see Ryan's minutes will actually go down next year -- so yeah its easy for a anonymous poster to say yeah Jimmy will find him minutes- the reality is its going to be hard for Ryan Oliver to earn many minutes on next years team. And that's not a bad thing. Sometimes players want to actually play,that's all I'm saying
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SaintMisbehavin
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Post by SaintMisbehavin on Feb 13, 2014 17:09:56 GMT -5
Oliver is earning less minutes this year than his Freshman year, even, and as Tony laid out, finding PT at the 2/3 will only be more difficult next year.
Regardless of what he decides to do next season, I am glad that he's found somewhat of a niche on this year's team. I hope he continues with his improvement and efficient production.
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th24
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Post by th24 on Feb 13, 2014 17:20:09 GMT -5
Right now- I would take Oliver over White! White is athletic...but has no jump shot and can't hit a 3 pointer to save his life.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2014 17:41:00 GMT -5
Right now- I would take Oliver over White! White is athletic...but has no jump shot and can't hit a 3 pointer to save his life. Knock it off!
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Post by Tony on Feb 13, 2014 17:47:37 GMT -5
Right now- I would take Oliver over White! White is athletic...but has no jump shot and can't hit a 3 pointer to save his life. Well looks like Jimmy doesn't agree with you...( since Mo already plays more than Ryan) Maurice is a lock down defender who will only get better next year, C'mon th24-- dont be a hater on White - Mo has a great mid range game, has a knack for getting to line-- his shot and shot selection is likely to improve as he gets sophomore jump
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Feb 13, 2014 18:32:28 GMT -5
Right now- I would take Oliver over White! White is athletic...but has no jump shot and can't hit a 3 pointer to save his life. Well looks like Jimmy doesn't agree with you...( since Mo already plays more than Ryan) Maurice is a lock down defender who will only get better next year, C'mon th24-- dont be a hater on White - Mo has a great mid range game, has a knack for getting to line-- his shot and shot selection is likely to improve as he gets sophomore jump I agree. White has a good mid range shot, missing threes doesn't annoy me, it's missing the shots around the rim. Otherwise I am very very optimistic about White. He's strong, quick and athletic, what's not to like?
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Post by hockeyguy on Feb 13, 2014 18:32:42 GMT -5
Tony, Cole had a nice year last year in the MEAC, that is not an upper level MAAC guantee, White MAY or MAY NOT improve (this is not a fact as you proclaim), and Paige hasn't played a minute of D1 basketball. I suggest that an experienced D1 player (warts and all) has as good a chance of minutes as any of the guys you cited. Just my opinion.
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Post by Tony on Feb 13, 2014 18:47:24 GMT -5
Tony, Cole had a nice year last year in the MEAC, that is not an upper level MAAC guantee, White MAY or MAY NOT improve (this is not a fact as you proclaim), and Paige hasn't played a minute of D1 basketball. I suggest that an experienced D1 player (warts and all) has as good a chance of minutes as any of the guys you cited. Just my opinion. That's your opinion and you are entitled to it.. but then again you are not practicing every day with Patrick Cole like Ryan Oliver is.. I've yet to hear one player or coach say Ryan Oliver is best player on team- Patsos and Poole both think the best player is Cole... and it is a fact as a freshmen Mo White is already playing more than Ryan.. so anything else you want to know contrarian? I will add if Ryan Oliver thinks he is better than Cole or white then he shouldn't be worried about playing time- if however he is a realist, he will see barring injuries playing time will be very rare for what amounts to 10th or 11th player on roster.. and hey that's fine somebody has to be 10 to 11th man--
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2014 18:49:58 GMT -5
Right now- I would take Oliver over White! White is athletic...but has no jump shot and can't hit a 3 pointer to save his life. Well looks like Jimmy doesn't agree with you...( since Mo already plays more than Ryan) Maurice is a lock down defender who will only get better next year, C'mon th24-- dont be a hater on White - Mo has a great mid range game, has a knack for getting to line-- his shot and shot selection is likely to improve as he gets sophomore jump White is a gritty defensive player, and an elite rebounder. But he is not an offensive player. He's tied for 111th in the MAAC in points per weighted shot. A true measure of efficiency. www.bbstate.com/conferences/MAAC/stats/indiv/PPWS/Metro%20Atlantic%20-%20Standard%20Statistics%20-%20Points%20per%20%28Weighted%29%20Shot/100The odd thing is though he also leads the team in shots attempted per minute played. So he's among the least efficient shooters in the conference taking the most shots for us when he's in the game. Also, he has the worst assist to TO ratio on the team and isn't in the top 60 in the MAAC in the category among just Guards Alone...and he doesn't really handle the ball much. Hypothetically speaking, by the numbers, if Ryan Oliver had played all of White's minutes this year instead of White...you'd sacrifice just under 1 rebound per game, about 10 total steals, but avoid 20 turnovers and add 35 points. White is a gritty, tough player and awesome rebounder and he could improve offensively but we need to be fair both ways when we write one player off for another.
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Post by Tony on Feb 13, 2014 18:55:54 GMT -5
Well looks like Jimmy doesn't agree with you...( since Mo already plays more than Ryan) Maurice is a lock down defender who will only get better next year, C'mon th24-- dont be a hater on White - Mo has a great mid range game, has a knack for getting to line-- his shot and shot selection is likely to improve as he gets sophomore jump White is a gritty defensive player, and an elite rebounder. But he is not an offensive player. He's tied for 111th in the MAAC in points per weighted shot. A true measure of efficiency. www.bbstate.com/conferences/MAAC/stats/indiv/PPWS/Metro%20Atlantic%20-%20Standard%20Statistics%20-%20Points%20per%20%28Weighted%29%20Shot/100The odd thing is though he also leads the team in shots attempted per minute played. So he's among the least efficient shooters in the conference taking the most shots for us when he's in the game. Also, he has the worst assist to TO ratio on the team and isn't in the top 60 in the MAAC in the category among just Guards Alone...and he doesn't really handle the ball much. Hypothetically speaking, by the numbers, if Ryan Oliver had played all of White's minutes this year instead of White...you'd sacrifice just under 1 rebound per game, about 10 total steals, but avoid 20 turnovers and add 35 points. White is a gritty, tough player and awesome rebounder and he could improve offensively but we need to be fair both ways when we write one player off for another. you might be right-- but fact is White already plays more than Oliver-- dont think for a second Patsos doesn't know those numbers- reason is Ryan struggles to defend his position, he is not blessed with lateral quickness ( or at least not since his injury) -
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bigsaintg
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Post by bigsaintg on Feb 13, 2014 18:55:55 GMT -5
KK - where is your stat that shows how good a defender White is and where Oliver gets blown by on defense at times
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2014 18:57:47 GMT -5
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Post by Tony on Feb 13, 2014 18:57:51 GMT -5
KK - where is your stat that shows how good a defender White is and where Oliver gets blown by on defense at times it doesn't.. this isn't about White anyway... Even Mo is going to have to show improvement. I dont want to make Patrick Cole out to be a savior -- but the kid will play 30+ min a game. Jimmy and Poole have said Patrick is our best player--I'm not convinced of that.. but its pretty easy to see he will be one of our best, and he does offer one big plus, he can get his own shot off anytime he wants- and anyone who has watched Siena struggle as shot clock winds downs knows how valuable that 'talent" will be
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2014 19:00:57 GMT -5
White is a gritty defensive player, and an elite rebounder. But he is not an offensive player. He's tied for 111th in the MAAC in points per weighted shot. A true measure of efficiency. www.bbstate.com/conferences/MAAC/stats/indiv/PPWS/Metro%20Atlantic%20-%20Standard%20Statistics%20-%20Points%20per%20%28Weighted%29%20Shot/100The odd thing is though he also leads the team in shots attempted per minute played. So he's among the least efficient shooters in the conference taking the most shots for us when he's in the game. Also, he has the worst assist to TO ratio on the team and isn't in the top 60 in the MAAC in the category among just Guards Alone...and he doesn't really handle the ball much. Hypothetically speaking, by the numbers, if Ryan Oliver had played all of White's minutes this year instead of White...you'd sacrifice just under 1 rebound per game, about 10 total steals, but avoid 20 turnovers and add 35 points. White is a gritty, tough player and awesome rebounder and he could improve offensively but we need to be fair both ways when we write one player off for another. you might be right-- but fact is White already plays more than Oliver-- dont think for a second Patsos doesn't know those numbers- reason is Ryan struggles to defend his position, he is not blessed with lateral quickness ( or at least not since his injury) - The offensive teams are also the ones that are winning and Siena is the one with the losing record. Also, that 35 points number is just if Ryan took all of White's shots. More points could be scored by those non-turnovers and the fact that when Ryan is in the game Poole for instance isn't draped by defenders so the floor is more spread. Just something to think about. Oliver was also a 42% 3 point shooter in HS as well. 36% could also be improved upon.
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