hankla
Team Captain
Posts: 1,639
Dislikes:
|
Post by hankla on Sept 13, 2013 16:53:22 GMT -5
The best big man in recent MAAC history was not built like gorilla . Jason Thompson was long , could run and jump, and could score from more than three feet away. I guess I would prefer a player like him to a banger like Aspirilla who I think moved from Kansas State to Canisus. As I have previously posted having seen these guys in game situations I don't see that J. O. is that much more a physical presence than M. Wolfe. The good thing is that playing decisions are not in any board member's hands but in the hands of a pro who is being paid to make them.
Go Saints
|
|
gorvy
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 9,998
Dislikes:
|
Post by gorvy on Sept 13, 2013 17:34:19 GMT -5
How old is MW 17/18? Let him mature he's a talent! Do we really need him on the floor this year. He's not going to be a difference maker BUT as a 5th yr senior he will be! Don't be short sighted and narrow minded. Short sighted and narrow minded? You are the one that wants to tie up a role player's scholarship for five years instead of four. You and others are totally discounting the opportunity cost of having that scholarship available for a potentially better player in that fifth year. You are also discounting the potential value he would have on a team that is undermanned and short on talent. Let him grow and perhaps be a part of the greatest class in siena history four years from now, instead of being the lone senior on a year five team that would likely not even have patsos as coach. Everybody likes to bring up David Ryan, the lone example in the history of siena basketball that red shirting worked out. I love the kid-- hard worker, talented shooter- tough as can be. But did it really work out? Saving Ryan didn't earn Ron Lanier any interest-- he was fired before the fifth year dividends paid out. And while he wads part of a team that exceeded expectations, it not like he won a maac championship or anything. Not even an nit. If you recruit them, play them.
|
|
OneIndian
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 10,614
Dislikes:
|
Post by OneIndian on Sept 13, 2013 18:47:23 GMT -5
How old is MW 17/18? Let him mature he's a talent! Do we really need him on the floor this year. He's not going to be a difference maker BUT as a 5th yr senior he will be! Don't be short sighted and narrow minded. Short sighted and narrow minded? You are the one that wants to tie up a role player's scholarship for five years instead of four. You and others are totally discounting the opportunity cost of having that scholarship available for a potentially better player in that fifth year. You are also discounting the potential value he would have on a team that is undermanned and short on talent. Let him grow and perhaps be a part of the greatest class in siena history four years from now, instead of being the lone senior on a year five team that would likely not even have patsos as coach. Everybody likes to bring up David Ryan, the lone example in the history of siena basketball that red shirting worked out. I love the kid-- hard worker, talented shooter- tough as can be. But did it really work out? Saving Ryan didn't earn Ron Lanier any interest-- he was fired before the fifth year dividends paid out. And while he wads part of a team that exceeded expectations, it not like he won a maac championship or anything. Not even an nit. If you recruit them, play them. Role player? ?? Are you sure about that Patsos might not be coach in. 5 years, huh? Wow what else do you know? You are the master prognosticator! Tell us more..,,
|
|
hoopjunkie
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 12,423
Dislikes:
|
Post by hoopjunkie on Sept 13, 2013 21:15:01 GMT -5
Short sighted and narrow minded? You are the one that wants to tie up a role player's scholarship for five years instead of four. You and others are totally discounting the opportunity cost of having that scholarship available for a potentially better player in that fifth year. You are also discounting the potential value he would have on a team that is undermanned and short on talent. Let him grow and perhaps be a part of the greatest class in siena history four years from now, instead of being the lone senior on a year five team that would likely not even have patsos as coach. Everybody likes to bring up David Ryan, the lone example in the history of siena basketball that red shirting worked out. I love the kid-- hard worker, talented shooter- tough as can be. But did it really work out? Saving Ryan didn't earn Ron Lanier any interest-- he was fired before the fifth year dividends paid out. And while he wads part of a team that exceeded expectations, it not like he won a maac championship or anything. Not even an nit. If you recruit them, play them. Role player? ?? Are you sure about that Patsos might not be coach in. 5 years, huh? Wow what else do you know? You are the master prognosticator! Tell us more..,, There's never been a year with so many minutes up for grabs at both inside positions. As thin, and inexperienced Wolfe may be, he can easily claim some of those minutes on a bad team. It's not like he's coming in 3 years ago with Rossiter and OD cemented in 70 of those 80 min!!
|
|
OneIndian
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 10,614
Dislikes:
|
Post by OneIndian on Sept 13, 2013 22:12:18 GMT -5
That all may be true, but who is JP referring to when he's talking about red shirting? It has to be MW. JP must have a valid reason. IMHO this kid is 6'9" athletic, can run and shoot some. It's sounds like he's got a ton of upside. Why not give him a year to develop. It's not like we're going to make a run at anything this year. We're looking at best at a 500 season with or without MW 8-10 minutes a game. If this kid blows up to be something bigger we got him for 4 years at his best. 6'9" athletic players don't grow on trees!
|
|
hoopjunkie
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 12,423
Dislikes:
|
Post by hoopjunkie on Sept 14, 2013 2:14:49 GMT -5
That all may be true, but who is JP referring to when he's talking about red shirting? It has to be MW. JP must have a valid reason. IMHO this kid is 6'9" athletic, can run and shoot some. It's sounds like he's got a ton of upside. Why not give him a year to develop. It's not like we're going to make a run at anything this year. We're looking at best at a 500 season with or without MW 8-10 minutes a game. If this kid blows up to be something bigger we got him for 4 years at his best. 6'9" athletic players don't grow on trees! EVERY kid is better at 22-23 than they are at 17-18, so every freshman should redshirt that isn't going to get 35 min? As a horrible team, I'm not worried about 4 years now, we stink NOW, and need all the help we can get!! If we end up as good as everyone thinks, in 4 years we'll be signing kids much better than Wolfe anyways.
|
|
albanysaint
Walk-On
"His words carry weight that would break a less interesting man's jaw"
Posts: 152
Dislikes:
|
Post by albanysaint on Sept 14, 2013 4:44:25 GMT -5
That all may be true, but who is JP referring to when he's talking about red shirting? It has to be MW. JP must have a valid reason. IMHO this kid is 6'9" athletic, can run and shoot some. It's sounds like he's got a ton of upside. Why not give him a year to develop. It's not like we're going to make a run at anything this year. We're looking at best at a 500 season with or without MW 8-10 minutes a game. If this kid blows up to be something bigger we got him for 4 years at his best. 6'9" athletic players don't grow on trees! EVERY kid is better at 22-23 than they are at 17-18, so every freshman should redshirt that isn't going to get 35 min? As a horrible team, I'm not worried about 4 years now, we stink NOW, and need all the help we can get!! If we end up as good as everyone thinks, in 4 years we'll be signing kids much better than Wolfe anyways. Or we'll be in the process of hiring the next Mitch, Lanier, Beyer
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Dislikes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2013 5:53:27 GMT -5
That all may be true, but who is JP referring to when he's talking about red shirting? It has to be MW. JP must have a valid reason. IMHO this kid is 6'9" athletic, can run and shoot some. It's sounds like he's got a ton of upside. Why not give him a year to develop. It's not like we're going to make a run at anything this year. We're looking at best at a 500 season with or without MW 8-10 minutes a game. If this kid blows up to be something bigger we got him for 4 years at his best. 6'9" athletic players don't grow on trees! Why does it "have to be" Wolfe? The backcourt is crowded. It would make more sense to redshirt Audu or Oliver, actually.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Dislikes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2013 6:20:11 GMT -5
Relax! It should become clear who any potential redshirts might be as the season progresses. A redshirt doesn't have to be declared early. I believe the staff's plan is to keep MW as a potential redshirt (read that - "on the bench") unless it becomes clear that he is needed due to injury or less than stellar play from one or more of the other 'bigs'. I agree with HJ - he should be used - in game development is much more valuable than just the weight room and the practice floor, IMHO. We need all of the talent we have available - this is even more true given our youth and complete lack of experience winning games. As good as they are, the freshman and returning players will likely throw up a clunker game now and then as they learn Jimmy's new system and get welcomed to the D1 game. The team's focus should be winning and not developing players for the longterm - our future is now and we need to get back to the top of the MAAC.
|
|
bigsaintg
Assistant Coach
Posts: 6,919
Dislikes:
|
Post by bigsaintg on Sept 14, 2013 7:11:32 GMT -5
Maybe it's just Jimmy "thinking out loud" as he tends to be inconsistent from interview to interview. Or, they could redshirting Evan hoping he grows 4 inches.
In reality, we will most likely have major injury and if Cole gets his waiver that changes a lot , I think a guy like Audu could be odd man out. I wouldn't redshirt anyone as the roster may change during the season and JP will probably play with his lineup a lot
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Dislikes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2013 7:31:34 GMT -5
Maybe it's just Jimmy "thinking out loud" as he tends to be inconsistent from interview to interview. Or, they could redshirting Evan hoping he grows 4 inches. In reality, we will most likely have major injury and if Cole gets his waiver that changes a lot , I think a guy like Audu could be odd man out. I wouldn't redshirt anyone as the roster may change during the season and JP will probably play with his lineup a lot I think Jimmy's "thinking out loud" was also offered (intentionally or unintentially) to protect MW and the staff from the obvious criticisms that would undoubtedly come from many on this board and others close to the program if they saw MW pinned to the bench for no apparent reason. We know he is very skilled, know the potential is there for playing time this year if needed, and also know not playing will be a good investment in the future. Jimmy and his staff know what they are doing - we should all just let it play out. Same thought applies to who may start early. This team will be really tested early and the impact of what might be inevitable early losses can be turned into positive opportunities to "grow" a lot of guys as they get introduced to D1 hoop at levels well above MAAC play.
|
|
mrsiena
Junior
Posts: 842
Dislikes:
|
Post by mrsiena on Sept 14, 2013 7:45:30 GMT -5
HJ, you boggle my mind when you label Siena as a bad team without them even playing a game. When and if they are getting beat by 20-30 points a game then I'll agree with you. Who would have thought Niagara would have won the regular season championship last year coming off their previous season bomb out.
|
|
Sienafan
Team Captain
Posts: 2,498
Dislikes:
|
Post by Sienafan on Sept 14, 2013 7:49:40 GMT -5
In Montreal, Wolfe had about as many boards as JO and he hardly played. He's our best combo of size, ball skill, and athleticism. Seems to me he brings a dimension we currently lack otherwise. I honestly don't know what the rules are: Does Jimmy have to declare this before the season or just apply at the end of the year? If Jimmy finds he doesn't need him this year then fine. However, if you have to do this ahead of time then I think it's a bad idea since we could get 5 games in and find that we just need another long versatile athlete to run around the court. That's not even considering injuries. Ryan Bacon was 200 lbs his entire career and he was one of the elite defenders in the league. Wolfe has the athleticism to make up for not having the muscle. That's a key stat. On a team that might be rebounding challenged, they will need all hands on deck. Which is something I'm sure Jimmy will take into consideration if rebounding isn't going so well. As explained to me above, a redshirt can come into a game at any time and simply loses that status at that point. So it seems a player can be redshirted and still be used if needed. The coaches have said they've identified 11 who can play, but only 8 or 9 will play. If that holds, sounds like a redshirt is likely for someone. With Cole sitting out during his year in residence, a redshirt means just one player has to join Hopper as a fixture on the bench this season. My guess is either Oliver or Audu is the odd man out of the returning players. And of the freshmen, I think we can all agree that Wolfe is the least immediately college - ready. Thus it appears he's the likely candidate to redshirt. It seems he wouldn't be upset by it as he was planning to prep a year had he not signed with a school anyway.
|
|
Quackman
Team Captain
Posts: 2,438
Dislikes:
|
Post by Quackman on Sept 14, 2013 8:23:26 GMT -5
That all may be true, but who is JP referring to when he's talking about red shirting? It has to be MW. JP must have a valid reason. IMHO this kid is 6'9" athletic, can run and shoot some. It's sounds like he's got a ton of upside. Why not give him a year to develop. It's not like we're going to make a run at anything this year. We're looking at best at a 500 season with or without MW 8-10 minutes a game. If this kid blows up to be something bigger we got him for 4 years at his best. 6'9" athletic players don't grow on trees! EVERY kid is better at 22-23 than they are at 17-18, so every freshman should redshirt that isn't going to get 35 min? As a horrible team, I'm not worried about 4 years now, we stink NOW, and need all the help we can get!! If we end up as good as everyone thinks, in 4 years we'll be signing kids much better than Wolfe anyways. Yes, in a perfect world they would red shirt every kid. Jimmy P should be planning for the long term not the short term. If, in his opinion, a kid like Wolfe will have a better overall career because he takes a redshirt season then I am all for it. Ever look at the mid majors who do well in the NCAA tourney, they are typically senior dominated and always seem to have multiple 5th seniors on the team. Further, the decision to red shirt any player could be based on a number of reasons: strength, guys ahead of him in the rotation, maturity, academics ... The key is to make sure the kid will be able to deal with it emotionally, learn from it, be better at year 5 than he would have been in year 1 and still be around. If Siena has to take some lumps this year but the use of freshman and making use of the red shirt rules results in a McCaffery type run, I am all for it.
|
|
bigfan
Team Captain
Posts: 1,726
Dislikes:
|
Post by bigfan on Sept 14, 2013 9:54:44 GMT -5
EVERY kid is better at 22-23 than they are at 17-18, so every freshman should redshirt that isn't going to get 35 min? As a horrible team, I'm not worried about 4 years now, we stink NOW, and need all the help we can get!! If we end up as good as everyone thinks, in 4 years we'll be signing kids much better than Wolfe anyways. Yes, in a perfect world they would red shirt every kid. Jimmy P should be planning for the long term not the short term. If, in his opinion, a kid like Wolfe will have a better overall career because he takes a redshirt season then I am all for it. Ever look at the mid majors who do well in the NCAA tourney, they are typically senior dominated and always seem to have multiple 5th seniors on the team. Further, the decision to red shirt any player could be based on a number of reasons: strength, guys ahead of him in the rotation, maturity, academics ... The key is to make sure the kid will be able to deal with it emotionally, learn from it, be better at year 5 than he would have been in year 1 and still be around. If Siena has to take some lumps this year but the use of freshman and making use of the red shirt rules results in a McCaffery type run, I am all for it. I'd like to see some examples of this "multiple 5th year seniors" thing you are talking about. I actually think 5th year seniors in basketball is a fairly rare phenomenon, especially at a school with such limited post grad options as Siena. I think we have less than a 50-50 shot at reaping the benefit of that 5th year if Wolfe or anyone else is redshirted. Also, whatever live action experience that is gained this year will benefit the next three seasons in overall experience and development. Redshirt, and you don't get that added experience to draw on for the next three seasons. Coach will do what he thinks is right, so we're all just along for the ride. My preference is to let him play, however many minutes that may be. With the ever present risk of injury, those minutes could be more than any of us would guess at this point.
|
|