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Post by Tony on Sept 6, 2013 12:09:44 GMT -5
LaSalle, UMass, URI, St. Bonnie, GW, George Mason, Davidson and posdibly 2 stay from VCU/Dayton/Richmond Still way better vs MAAC. Plus where is UMASS going? Agreed with remaining teams-- the a10 wouldn't be the juggernaut it was last year sending 5 teams to NCAA's but would still be a 2 bid conference most years And let this sink in--- had Siena been in a NCAA sharing conference when they earned 5 NCAA units over those 3 years Siena would be getting close to a million a year ( some serious cash) in the MAAC St Peters ( who does not invest in their program) gets just as much money from Siena’s 5 units as Siena does - somehow that doesn’t seem fair to me And I should add programs don’t build 17 million dollar practice facilities to compete in the MAAC- so in some ways I think the die is cast as soon as there is an opening and as soon as Siena gets back to their winning ways – all we can do is improve the program until such an opening presents itself
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Sept 6, 2013 12:29:50 GMT -5
LaSalle, UMass, URI, St. Bonnie, GW, George Mason, Davidson and posdibly 2 stay from VCU/Dayton/Richmond Still way better vs MAAC. Plus where is UMASS going? UMass could always upgrade football and move to that American Association or whatever they are calling the old Big East football schools that really is just old Conference USA schools.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2013 13:31:29 GMT -5
LaSalle, UMass, URI, St. Bonnie, GW, George Mason, Davidson and posdibly 2 stay from VCU/Dayton/Richmond Still way better vs MAAC. Plus where is UMASS going? I can't say for sure where UMass will end up. All I know, which is easy to google, is that UMass is trying hard to leave the A-10.
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glen
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Post by glen on Sept 6, 2013 14:49:14 GMT -5
Even if UMass goes, they'd probably bring in another decent team...maybe Fairfield to keep the reddish color scheme thing going. Either way it won't be an NEC team backfilling the spot. I've maintained for a while that the upper half of the MAAC would fit in nicely in a revised A10. This could play out.
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Post by freeharrymoore on Sept 6, 2013 16:05:52 GMT -5
They usually get 2 bids, no question. But when Temple, Xavier, Butler, Dayton, Richmond, and UMass are gone, do you really think they will keep getting multiple bids? First, the league has averaged 3.0 NCAA bids per season for the last decade (including four and five in the last two seasons, respectively) and 3.2 bids over the last 20 years. Two one-bid seasons in 2001-02 and 2004-05 hurt those averages. Those were rough years. Also, how, exactly, has UMass been contributing to the league getting multiple bids lately? They haven't been to the tournament since 1999. It wouldn't be a good thing for UMass to depart for the AAC, but it wouldn't be a death blow, either. Those Calipari years seem to be the exception rather than the rule as it pertains to the Minutemen program. He has won and won huge at every stop in the NCAA. Greasy recruiting methods or not, the guy wins everywhere. Butler played in the league for one (1) season, so I'm not sure how much their loss affects the overall perception of the league. With respect to losing Temple and Xavier... there's no question that it stings like hell, but the league has lost many strong programs over the years and replenished quite nicely. It will do the same again with Charleston, Siena, or both if McGlade decides to expand when SLU and UD (the likely departures) go to the Big East. Finally, you're nuts, magic, if you think Siena wouldn't be making a major upgrade by accepting an A-10 invite. The league doesn't make a ton in TV revenue, but it's a hell of a lot more than most conferences in the country. Outside of the BCS, there can't be more than two or three leagues bringing in any actual revenue from the major networks. I believe each A-10 school begins pulling in about $400K per season starting this year. The new Big East brings in substantially more than this. I'm sure the Mountain West has a solid deal and the Missouri Valley may bring in some revenue, too, but I'm not sure on that. On top of the TV stuff, your school gets to keep 75% of the tournament revenue it earns. That's a decent chunk of change over the six-year payout period for a single NCAA unit. It's not mega money, but it's much more revenue than the MAAC will bring in. Simply put, the Siena administration would accept an invite at light speed. If an announcement is made re: SLU and UD, watch out. Bernie McGlade tends to move quickly and replacements would likely be invited soon after any Big East announcement.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2013 16:43:19 GMT -5
They usually get 2 bids, no question. But when Temple, Xavier, Butler, Dayton, Richmond, and UMass are gone, do you really think they will keep getting multiple bids? First, the league has averaged 3.0 NCAA bids per season for the last decade (including four and five in the last two seasons, respectively) and 3.2 bids over the last 20 years. Two one-bid seasons in 2001-02 and 2004-05 hurt those averages. Those were rough years. Also, how, exactly, has UMass been contributing to the league getting multiple bids lately? They haven't been to the tournament since 1999. It wouldn't be a good thing for UMass to depart for the AAC, but it wouldn't be a death blow, either. Those Calipari years seem to be the exception rather than the rule as it pertains to the Minutemen program. He has won and won huge at every stop in the NCAA. Greasy recruiting methods or not, the guy wins everywhere. Butler played in the league for one (1) season, so I'm not sure how much their loss affects the overall perception of the league. With respect to losing Temple and Xavier... there's no question that it stings like hell, but the league has lost many strong programs over the years and replenished quite nicely. It will do the same again with Charleston, Siena, or both if McGlade decides to expand when SLU and UD (the likely departures) go to the Big East. Finally, you're nuts, magic, if you think Siena wouldn't be making a major upgrade by accepting an A-10 invite. The league doesn't make a ton in TV revenue, but it's a hell of a lot more than most conferences in the country. Outside of the BCS, there can't be more than two or three leagues bringing in any actual revenue from the major networks. I believe each A-10 school begins pulling in about $400K per season starting this year. The new Big East brings in substantially more than this. I'm sure the Mountain West has a solid deal and the Missouri Valley may bring in some revenue, too, but I'm not sure on that. On top of the TV stuff, your school gets to keep 75% of the tournament revenue it earns. That's a decent chunk of change over the six-year payout period for a single NCAA unit. It's not mega money, but it's much more revenue than the MAAC will bring in. Simply put, the Siena administration would accept an invite at light speed. If an announcement is made re: SLU and UD, watch out. Bernie McGlade tends to move quickly and replacements would likely be invited soon after any Big East announcement. Nobody said UMass went to the tourney, nice try. UMass would be one of the best programs left, facility wise and reputation wise. How many tourney bids does the league average without Temple and Xavier? How long will the TV contract last if all those teams leave? And actually, the tourney revenue isn't more than the MAAC brings in, it's EXACTLY the same. The portion you keep is more. Be accurate. And you have to get to the tourney to get it. In a one bid league, your chances are better in the MAAC. If the MAAC is so scared of losing Siena, as some claim, and the MAAC has new voting members, you can pressure them to change the rules.
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Post by freeharrymoore on Sept 6, 2013 17:25:45 GMT -5
You asked if the league will continue to get multiple bids if a specific handful of teams departed--and UMass was one of those teams. How, again, has UMass contributed to the league's average of three bids in the last 10 or so years? Nice facilities, though? Absolutely. Talk to their fans, too. They're not even sure if their administration will continue their FCS experiment. I could see them leave at some point, but it's far from imminent. Many of their fans don't see the Minutemen in any league but the A10 for the foreseeable future.
I also didn't say that the A10 received any more money per NCAA unit than the MAAC--just that the former has far more units to pass around than the latter. Combine the new TV money with the exit fees from teams departing and there is a pretty substantial amount of money being split between the remaining schools.
As for the one bid concept... when schools like Penn State, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Rutgers, etc. left, these same "future one bid league" assertions were made. It hasn't happened because the league's brand is still pretty solid. Siena will join the moment an invitation is extended.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2013 5:47:18 GMT -5
You asked if the league will continue to get multiple bids if a specific handful of teams departed--and UMass was one of those teams. How, again, has UMass contributed to the league's average of three bids in the last 10 or so years? Nice facilities, though? Absolutely. Talk to their fans, too. They're not even sure if their administration will continue their FCS experiment. I could see them leave at some point, but it's far from imminent. Many of their fans don't see the Minutemen in any league but the A10 for the foreseeable future. I also didn't say that the A10 received any more money per NCAA unit than the MAAC--just that the former has far more units to pass around than the latter. Combine the new TV money with the exit fees from teams departing and there is a pretty substantial amount of money being split between the remaining schools. As for the one bid concept... when schools like Penn State, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Rutgers, etc. left, these same "future one bid league" assertions were made. It hasn't happened because the league's brand is still pretty solid. Siena will join the moment an invitation is extended. Actually, you DID say there was more tourney money per unit, and now you're saying there are more units per team, which isn't true. The TEAM still only gets what the team earns. I included UMass in a group of teams expected to leave, never said they went to the tourney. But they do help boost the conference RPI and reputation, which does help with multiple bids. I don't care if you disagree with me, just don't stretch what I write to fit your needs or blatantly lie to try to be right.
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Post by freeharrymoore on Sept 9, 2013 17:20:01 GMT -5
Show me where I said the A10 gets more money per NCAA unit than the MAAC. I said that the A10 has a system in place that allows the team EARNING each unit to keep 75% of that money. That's much more than many other leagues. I know the CAA splits everything evenly. If you can get to the dance every once in a while, it's a decent boost in revenue.
Now, show me where I said the A10 gets more NCAA units per team. Do you have reading comprehension issues? The league has earned quite a few units, which are paid out over the course of six years. Also, with the departure of Xavier, Temple, and Butler, all of their leftover units (a pretty substantial amount) will be split between the remaining teams.
This discussion is rather tiresome, but I know Siena is fortunate you aren't making its decisions for it.
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Post by glensfalls on Sept 9, 2013 17:37:12 GMT -5
Please answer the following questions ...... what program has been more relevant during the past ten (10) years:
1. Siena or St.Bonaventure?
2. Siena or The George Washington University?
3. Siena or LaSalle?
4. Siena or Duquesne University?
5. Siena or Rhode Island?
6. Siena or UMass?
7. Siena or Fordham?
8. Siena or Dayton?
9. Siena or St.Joseph's?
Thanks
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jong10
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Post by jong10 on Sept 9, 2013 18:01:22 GMT -5
Please answer the following questions ...... what program has been more relevant during the past ten (10) years: 1. Siena or St.Bonaventure? 2. Siena or The George Washington University? 3. Siena or LaSalle? 4. Siena or Duquesne University? 5. Siena or Rhode Island? 6. Siena or UMass? 7. Siena or Fordham? 8. Siena or Dayton? 9. Siena or St.Joseph's? Thanks Dayton, for sure, has had a better 10 year run than Siena. I think an arguement could also be made for St. Joe's with 5 post-season appearances in 10 years and the '03-'04 team went 27-0 in the regular season. Dayton: Winning record in 9 of last 10 years; 2 NCAA appearances (1 2nd round appearance); 4 NIT appearances (1 NIT Championship); 2011 Old Spice Champs; 2003 Maui Invitational Champs. St. Joe's: 2 NCAA Appearances (including 1 Elite 8 appearance); 3 NIT appearances
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Post by DelmartianEd on Sept 9, 2013 18:17:21 GMT -5
Davidson and Richmond (nationally ranked small private liberal arts colleges) have also probably had better decades than us, as well as George Mason certainly. But I do like the idea that if Siena got the invite to the A-10, we could possibly be able to jump to the top 5 relevant programs list in short order.
And I like the rest of the A-10. Bona, Fordham, and La Salle (all schools we play in our non-conference schedule this season) should be rivals, and are frankly institutional upgrades compared to Niagara, Manhattan, and Rider.
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Post by billmurray on Sept 9, 2013 18:39:28 GMT -5
CSE is correct, the issue is not comparing Siena to the remaining members of the A10, but how those teams compare to the other MAAC teams + the NEC teams they have added.
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Post by glensfalls on Sept 9, 2013 19:58:51 GMT -5
Please answer the following questions ...... what program has been more relevant during the past ten (10) years: 1. Siena or St.Bonaventure? 2. Siena or The George Washington University? 3. Siena or LaSalle? 4. Siena or Duquesne University? 5. Siena or Rhode Island? 6. Siena or UMass? 7. Siena or Fordham? 8. Siena or Dayton? 9. Siena or St.Joseph's? Thanks Dayton, for sure, has had a better 10 year run than Siena. I think an arguement could also be made for St. Joe's with 5 post-season appearances in 10 years and the '03-'04 team went 27-0 in the regular season. Dayton: Winning record in 9 of last 10 years; 2 NCAA appearances (1 2nd round appearance); 4 NIT appearances (1 NIT Championship); 2011 Old Spice Champs; 2003 Maui Invitational Champs. St. Joe's: 2 NCAA Appearances (including 1 Elite 8 appearance); 3 NIT appearances ____________________________________________________________________ jong10, Thank you for proving the point that I am attempting to make. Siena has been more relevant in men's college basketball over the past decade than most if not all of the remaining A10 schools. What many of you forget is that a move by Siena to the A10 will require a substantial increase in costs for all athletic teams (not just basketball) to travel to farther away destinations without a firm financial commitment for television. Most of the A10 cheerleaders on this site also forget that absent Xavier and Butler and possibly St.Louis, Richmond or VCU the advantages and appeal of the A10 fade when compared with the financial costs and the costs of lost academic and class time for our student athletes. IMO there is not a great advantage in incurring the increased financial and academic expenses to play Fordham, Dusquene, GWU, Rhode Island LaSalle and the other has beens when Siena can have expectations of gaining the automatic bid with the MAAC 3 or 4 times each decade, Capice?
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saints22
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Post by saints22 on Sept 9, 2013 21:57:18 GMT -5
Dayton, for sure, has had a better 10 year run than Siena. I think an arguement could also be made for St. Joe's with 5 post-season appearances in 10 years and the '03-'04 team went 27-0 in the regular season. Dayton: Winning record in 9 of last 10 years; 2 NCAA appearances (1 2nd round appearance); 4 NIT appearances (1 NIT Championship); 2011 Old Spice Champs; 2003 Maui Invitational Champs. St. Joe's: 2 NCAA Appearances (including 1 Elite 8 appearance); 3 NIT appearances ____________________________________________________________________ jong10, Thank you for proving the point that I am attempting to make. Siena has been more relevant in men's college basketball over the past decade than most if not all of the remaining A10 schools. What many of you forget is that a move by Siena to the A10 will require a substantial increase in costs for all athletic teams (not just basketball) to travel to farther away destinations without a firm financial commitment for television. Most of the A10 cheerleaders on this site also forget that absent Xavier and Butler and possibly St.Louis, Richmond or VCU the advantages and appeal of the A10 fade when compared with the financial costs and the costs of lost academic and class time for our student athletes. IMO there is not a great advantage in incurring the increased financial and academic expenses to play Fordham, Dusquene, GWU, Rhode Island LaSalle and the other has beens when Siena can have expectations of gaining the automatic bid with the MAAC 3 or 4 times each decade, Capice? The point about "a substantial increase in costs for all athletic teams (not just basketball" is Siena were to join the A-10 has been made numerous times on here in the past. We're all pretty much aware of it. One possible advantage of Siena joining the A-10 would be to create more of an identity outside of the northeast. With enrollment down at schools across the country, competition for students is going to be tougher and tougher in the coming years. Being a regular presence at games in bigger markets in the midwest and down to the DC/NOVA area, and having those games reported in various media outlets, could be seen by the Siena administration as almost a necessary recruiting tool for students from a wider geographic area.
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