nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Apr 17, 2013 18:21:41 GMT -5
HJ - you are spot on. The one diff is that Loyola as a school is changing their situation conference wise. I'm not sure how much was made of that during their recruitment and that has been known for a while. Still, if this happened to us there would be no sympathy for the survival of the fittest BS. Not really sure what your point is? Sure some of us were mad when Fran said that PW was better than sliced bread and then let his best assistant re-recruit his star talent on our season ticket money, but can't we grow as a fan base? We were never going to get Basabe-- it is clear now he committed to Fran, not to Siena. What do you want Patsos to do, turn his back on recruits who clearly wanted to play for him? Ms. Long spent hours, days, months, years even trying to find the right fit for her son, and thought she found it with Patsos at Loyola. I think it makes sense for the Longs to check Siena out to see if it fits too. Judging by his talent he seems to be a better fit here than at Loyola, at least basketball wise. If he got in to Loyola he must be a pretty good student too right? Meanwhile, we have Crookins. Patsos is doing his job, as he should. And we shouldn't feel bad about that. Iowa>Siena>Loyola. It is what it is. If the time comes that we lose Patsos to Maryland, you won't see me crying about the recruits he takes with him. Not anymore. we need a "Like" button!
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jong10
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Post by jong10 on Apr 17, 2013 18:50:30 GMT -5
Well said, gorvy.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Apr 17, 2013 20:42:14 GMT -5
Yeah, "We got robbed, so screw it, let's rob someone else and not feel guilty about it!" lol
Don't worry, I'm on board with how it works, but can't sit by when people say, "We recruited well!" One of the kids hasn't even seen the campus and already committed?! lol
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Apr 17, 2013 21:09:09 GMT -5
Yeah, "We got robbed, so screw it, let's rob someone else and not feel guilty about it!" lol Don't worry, I'm on board with how it works, but can't sit by when people say, "We recruited well!" One of the kids hasn't even seen the campus and already committed?! lol Ok so by your logic how long does a new coach have to be at a school before that school can say "We recruited well"? BTW, I am ok with the kids following the coach but as I have stated repeatedly over the years: I really wish kids committed to schools rather than coaches. That VAST majority of these kids will make their living doing something other than playing basketball, football, etc...
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Apr 17, 2013 21:56:11 GMT -5
Yeah, "We got robbed, so screw it, let's rob someone else and not feel guilty about it!" lol Don't worry, I'm on board with how it works, but can't sit by when people say, "We recruited well!" One of the kids hasn't even seen the campus and already committed?! lol Ok so by your logic how long does a new coach have to be at a school before that school can say "We recruited well?. One day. ......as long as he gets commitments from kids that hadn't signed LOI's with the team he left us for.....THEN you can say he, "recruited well for US."
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Post by playerparentcoach on Apr 17, 2013 23:16:03 GMT -5
Yeah, "We got robbed, so screw it, let's rob someone else and not feel guilty about it!" lol Don't worry, I'm on board with how it works, but can't sit by when people say, "We recruited well!" One of the kids hasn't even seen the campus and already committed?! lol Ok so by your logic how long does a new coach have to be at a school before that school can say "We recruited well"? BTW, I am ok with the kids following the coach but as I have stated repeatedly over the years: I really wish kids committed to schools rather than coaches. That VAST majority of these kids will make their living doing something other than playing basketball, football, etc... I agree with you that's why Lavon will visit before he commits ..and he wants to major in business that part of Siena was already researched from the last time around ...he just needs to feel good about the campus and atmosphere at the school
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Apr 17, 2013 23:58:38 GMT -5
Ok so by your logic how long does a new coach have to be at a school before that school can say "We recruited well"? BTW, I am ok with the kids following the coach but as I have stated repeatedly over the years: I really wish kids committed to schools rather than coaches. That VAST majority of these kids will make their living doing something other than playing basketball, football, etc... I agree with you that's why Lavon will visit before he commits ..and he wants to major in business that part of Siena was already researched from the last time around ...he just needs to feel good about the campus and atmosphere at the school Not worried about him. He's getting good direction from you. He'll like the campus, and the Siena community. It's hard not to.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2013 2:31:47 GMT -5
When the player is at practice on Oct 15 then I consider them committed. I would hope by then the player would have finally come to peace with his decision but a look at transfer rates these days sadly says otherwise.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2013 4:09:34 GMT -5
It's the coach that sells the items below that are most important to each player.
Himself, assistant coaches, game style, playing time, the facilities, the league, the curriculum and the schools landscape.
There has to be alot of thought that goes into a decision of this magnitude. However, the coach makes the pitch and is in fact the face of all those items listed above, without a comfort level there the rest mean squat. I really don't see why you would commit to a school when its so easy to see the coach is the single most important piece of the puzzle.
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Apr 18, 2013 6:26:06 GMT -5
To HJ's point - maybe I've become jaded by the whole process because of college football. Those who live(d) in football country will surely understand.
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Apr 18, 2013 7:11:59 GMT -5
We can't separate the school from the coach. If it turns out some of Loyola's (read Patsos') recruits come here and thrive along with Mitch's recruits (JO & Jiggetss)_, then 3-4 years down the road everybody will say Siena and Jimmy got a great recruiting class. Had Jimmy gone to a B10 or Big East school - would he have been able to bring all or any of these kids? I think we will say that we "i.e., Siena" made the right hire and was able to recruit good kids to play for him. Very few will give Mitch credit or denigrate anybody for leaving Loyola. How can we knock anybody if they are playing by the rules if a kid is looking for the best place to spend a critical 4 years of his life and develop himself (in all ways) for the rest of his life?
Was I disappointed that we lost Basabe 3 years ago? Sure, but I understood it. Unless you change the rules to disallow this, it's OK, and yes, we (Siena & Jimmy) will have recruited whomever is new to this team next year. (And we should not make any rule changes that handcuff/restricts the players. If anything, install rules that control the coaches more - not the players.
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musicman
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Post by musicman on Apr 18, 2013 9:02:19 GMT -5
We can't separate the school from the coach. If it turns out some of Loyola's (read Patsos') recruits come here and thrive along with Mitch's recruits (JO & Jiggetss)_, then 3-4 years down the road everybody will say Siena and Jimmy got a great recruiting class. Had Jimmy gone to a B10 or Big East school - would he have been able to bring all or any of these kids? I think we will say that we "i.e., Siena" made the right hire and was able to recruit good kids to play for him. Very few will give Mitch credit or denigrate anybody for leaving Loyola. How can we knock anybody if they are playing by the rules if a kid is looking for the best place to spend a critical 4 years of his life and develop himself (in all ways) for the rest of his life? Was I disappointed that we lost Basabe 3 years ago? Sure, but I understood it. Unless you change the rules to disallow this, it's OK, and yes, we (Siena & Jimmy) will have recruited whomever is new to this team next year. (And we should not make any rule changes that handcuff/restricts the players. If anything, install rules that control the coaches more - not the players. well said. nice post! +1
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Post by psycholojets on Apr 18, 2013 9:06:24 GMT -5
Kids play for coaches not schools! They have relationships with coaches not campus's! They attend schools and live in campus's. For most of these kids starting at a new school there are only a couple of people on the campus that they have ANY relationship with, and those are the coaches.
If I commit to go to school at Baylor with three good friends and then my friends all decide that they are going to go to Miami instead do I have to spend 4 years in Waco?
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Apr 18, 2013 9:08:29 GMT -5
To HJ's point - maybe I've become jaded by the whole process because of college football. Those who live(d) in football country will surely understand. College football recruiting has no rules or class. Kids that are openly committed taking visits to other schools? It's crazy. In basketball, a kid commits, he's off limits, period. It's an unwritten rule among the coaches. Obviously nothing like college football! lol
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Post by tomfromnc on Jan 2, 2017 16:46:46 GMT -5
First, I don't pretend to speak for all Loyola fans in general. However, I do think it is helpful for Siena fans to get some insight on your new coach. I should preface my remarks by saying that all Loyola fans are grateful for the job that Jimmy and his staff did while at Loyola. He won games and graduated players and that is very admirable. Here goes: Pros: Great passion for the game. The fans will love his gameday intensity. He can spot HS talent and get in early on them. Also was able to bring in some high quality transfers. He likes one per year. Great in the public relations area. Cons: He is his own biggest fan. For all of the talk about how genuine he is, he just reminds me of a political candidate...kind of like Phil Mickelson. He doesn't know how to coach very well within the flow of the game. During his first 7 years at Loyola, if a player made a mistake, they were yanked out of the game and berated...he will do the same at Siena....and the players and fans will become frustrated by this. The players never get a chance to get in the flow of the game....With a veteran team, the past 2 years...he was much better about this. While he knows good talent, he doesn't always develop talent the way you would like. You'll find that there will be a good number of players that verbally commit to Siena that never find their way to the school. I can rattle off a least 8-10 players over the past 6 or so years that never played. The PR thing can also be bothersome....whether it's the Steph Curry perma-double team, to his celebrity worship/ name dropping (he recruited Denzell Washington's son & SJ Touhy from The Blind Side...he was also recruiting Mark Gottfried's son...to me it always seemed contrived. In fact, contrived is a good word for Jimmy. Some fans will love him...others will find him a bit much. To me, I always thought Bobby Knight was a douche....Jimmy has some Bobby Knight and Gary Williams intensity towards his players. Some will say he mellowed a bit with age...I think it is more a function of having a cohesive, veteran team. I am disappointed that Loyola's recruits are all following Jimmy, but not surprised. I do not know this to be fact, but I doubt that Maurice White would have been accepted in Loyola. Marko Pirovic is also planning on going to Siena. Lavon Long is a nice player....so is Marquis Wright....I hope he stays with Loyola. Mark my words...those that were frustrated going in will be really frustrated 4 years from now. The big reason, he gets outcoached when the opposing team is of equal talent. Enjoy the rollercoaster ride...it will be entertaining. 1/2/2017 Just checking back in to see if my predictions came true. I feel sorry for Siena fans because now you are stuck with him for 2 more years.
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